Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5809 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 12:30 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
|
I feel that I must say something here. I've driven automatics most of my life. My 06 330i, that I leased for three years, had a steptronic transmission which was, at the time, one of the best steps (performance oriented semi-manual/auto transmission) in the world! It was loads of fun and convenient. I found my self however in automatic mode 95% of the times, and down shifting/stepping manually during spirited occations when I wanted a burst of accelleration. I thought things couldn't get better. Now, I have an 08 335i with 6spd manual transmission. During the first 2 weeks, shifting was frustrating..especially 1st and 2nd. Nearly all manual BMW's these days have a wierd rattle when going from 1st to 2nd while the clutch is disengaged (pressed down). It turns out, this only happens when you shift, I would call it, impropperly, but others might say sub optimally. Anyhow, let me tell you guys.. if your goal is to enjoy the essence of driving..whether it be casual, spirited, or hard core racing... If the goal is to appreciate the drive, and to have the most fun!... Get the manual transmission! Hands down. If however, your goal is to efficiently drive around while maximizing convienence. Or in other words, to get from point A to B, very swiftly if you wish, yet with minimum fuss. If 90% results with 10% effort matters to you. If you don't relish in optimizing engine torque and controlling precisely what kind of rev you want. If you don't want to 100% control throttle response during a tight yet spirited bend. Another words, if you just wanna drive well, very well, and aren't very interested in participating more intimitely, which affords you the opportunity in improving slightly the drive's performance, in the process. If FUN is important to you, but within moderation. If it isn't really important to you that you get the ultimate funness out of your drive.. Well, then.. you'd do better to get an automatic. I hope that explains it to you guys who are wondering..and I know there's alot of you out there. By the way, I'd say that manuals are probably not for everyone,..but Are for most people..and the real problem is,.. many of those people just don't know it. I believe that presents a large prospective market for the auto industry to capitalize on. The fact that many Americans would probably be happier with a manual, in my opinion I should say, is a real marketing opportunity I believe. Question is, how can auto-makers make money outta selling a cheaper sprocket (manuals are simplier than auto-matics usually)? Manuals are funner, they work very well, are realiable, cheaper, and present less load to the engine. Manuals WORK and are more FUN! If they ain't broke, we shouldn't be tryin so hard to Fix'em??? That last statement is in regards to all the development for sophisticated sports orientated semi-manual-auto transmissions (SMG, DSG, ..). There's still a need for automatics.. for those whom are incapable or really don't value fun anymore, or for those who live near exceededly congested traffic jams.  . But, I'd venture to say that for most folk out there.. manual is truely the way to go. And this is comming from one who is now driving his first manual car. Joseph San Diego
|
|
|
Replying to: jmaroun (Oct 15, 2008 9:18 am) As someone posted earlier driving for most people is a necessary chore. Driving a manual is more interesting but it is also something that requires dedication and attention. Cell phones, computers, Ipods remote control is what people see as advancement. We are getting to the point where our equipment is better at its assigned task than we as humans. Take jet aircraft, without fly by wire we humans couldn't fly one in combat without getting shot down. Take F-1 racing, WRC, Alms cars, without paddle shifters the best human driver simply can't win a race. Manuals fall some place in between pure technology and tradition. People had to learn to drive and learn how to drive a manual. Our society is looking for a simpler and easier way. The purpose of a car is to move us more efficiently from one place to another. A minority of drivers enjoy the process most take it for granted. We aren't going to change we are always going to look for the easier way of doing things. Give a man a better tool that is easier to use and sooner or later the old tool falls out of favor and only the very dedicated will buy the old tool. It seems as if we are going to have dedicated manual drivers with us for quite some time but their numbers are slowly dwindling as we change our automotive preferences. The Automatic drivers will simply have more choices and the manual drivers will have to settle for whatever the manufacturers will give them. when people first started buying Mini vans you could get one with a manual. As they became more popular fewer and fewer people bought them. Then one day just about every manufacturer stopped making them for the American market. Didn't mean you couldn't buy a manual just that you couldn't get one in a Mini Van of your choice. Some thing happened with SUVs. For those who loved the Nissan Maxima and were loyal to it what choice do they now have? They can't get a Murano or Rouge either. It is not the manufacturers fault it is the consumer and what they are willing to spend their money on. If you want a Hybrid what choice do you have? Manuals have simply become an after thought in the automotive marketing world in the US.
|
|
|
Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) Oh, and elias would lose his bet with me too. Many modern econoboxes, mine included, have very light clutches, and the extra control of the third pedal is especially appreciated in stop and go traffic. IIRC, a few cars now have electro-mechanical clutch pedals. No actual hydraulics.(it trips a solenoid instead) So if you want a super light clutch, all you have to do is adjust the spring.
|
|
|
Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) Neither surges forward, though. That would bother me, too. Question - do any manuals have floor-mounted parking brakes? That would be odd. For my Miata, I use the hand brake to exit my parking garage at work, which is fairly steep. On that ramp my Sienna will drift back a bit, but the Forester (auto) doesn't.
|
|
|
Replying to: elias (Oct 15, 2008 2:57 am) That's actually not entirely true ... I prefer a manual in just about any circumstance because it gives me more control with the car - that said, "more control" is a question of what you're used to. I learnt to drive in a manual, and I drive almost entirely with the clutch - I basically step on the break only in emergencies, I regulate the transmission to the wheels with the clutch (someone experienced can easily make a car stand still with just the gas pedal and the clutch). I feel I have a lot less control with an automatic, e.g. with parking, in a real traffic jam, i.e. in any situation where I need to carefully regulate the speed. (To the extent that I'm always afraid to hit something - I still don't understand how not to make the car jerk around without a clutch ... in a manual I just gradually release the throttle, I can move the car half an inch forward smoothly ... in an automatic, I'm either pressing the break or the gas - the stupid thing creeps, and I keep stop-and-go jerking around when parking.) It's second nature, I'm used to it. However - I know people who are used to automatics, and they have similar control problems on manuals ... I don't actually think either of them is "better" - it's just a matter of driving style. |
|
|
Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) I have a steep ramp exiting my garage at work, and I'd say our 09 Forester auto handles it best, maintaining its position. The Sienna slides back a little. My manual Miata slides back a lot - so I use the hand brake trick. You kinda have to.
|
|
|
Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 15, 2008 10:40 am) I must dissagree that most people in the US know what they're doing when they choose an automatic over a manual. I believe most Americans are ignorant about manuals. What I mean is, I believe that most Americans choose automatics simply because they don't know how to drive manual..and thus do not have the benifit of comparing the two side by side. Buying cars is a relatively expensive affair, and thus folks will naturally tend towards the less risky choice. On the contrary, everyone I know that has driven both manual and auto for more than say..two months... has told me that the manual is more fun and that they'd prefer a manual over an automatic. Granted, the extreme older of these folks settle down with an automatic eventually... after years of manual driving. For fun oriented cars then, such as BMW's, Mazdas, Corvettes, and such..I believe most Americans would choose a manual, if only they had first hand experience with both transmissions apriori. Another words, Most folks would pick a manual with the Pepsi challenge. Also for economic cars such as the Mitshibishi Eclypse or Honda Civic..cars like these are purchased usually by younger folk who are naturally interested in fun. It's too bad, due to ignorance, these people do not know what they are missing. For consumers of Hondas and Camrys and the like.. especially for Camry oriented mindset.. I agree.. probably their decision for automatic is correctly suited. I believe a huge market for manuals exists right here in the US..it is up to someone to effectively demonstrate or educate to the consumers what in fact they are missing out on. Joseph San Diego
|
|
|
Replying to: jmaroun (Oct 15, 2008 1:43 pm) Toyota makes some reasonable manuals and has made them for years. You can get a camry with a 4 and a manual. But add a V-6 and how many manual Camrys can you buy in the US. Camry buyers are some of the most loyal so why not offer a manual? Because they simply aren't buying. Lets try and apples to apples example. Toyota made the RAV4 and Honda made the CR-V in the early days selling them as a small mini suv designed for fun. If you wanted to buy a Manual CR-V or Rav4 for 2009 how many do you think you could find? So if early CR-V or Rav4 owners had given "any" indication they wanted a manual do you believe Honda would have dropped the manual option? We are talking Honda here, they make some of the best small manuals in the business. Yet even they realize manuals don't sell well in the US. This didn't happen overnight it happened over years and today manuals make up less than 10 percent of US sales. Even the majority of the Corvettes sold in the US are Automatics if you care to research it. It isn't that they don't know what they want, the consumer is voting with their wallet with the most resounding results you can get. when given the option of a manual or an automatic 9 out of 10 consumers pick the automatic. Not opinion or speculation but measurable numbers. It is easy to see manual drivers are more passionate about their transmission choice. Some will pick the transmission over the car itself if the car they are looking at doesn't offer a manual option. But not even the most avid manual driver sees manual transmission gaining on automatics in the future. Remember even in Japan manuals are reported to be losing ground to automatics and CVTs. Only in the Old world are manuals still the choice of the average driver. So unless the whole world has been fooled into not realizing what they have in the manual transmission the consumer knows just what they want and what they will pay for. Thinking manufactures are missing the boat by not offering more manuals is simply forgetting history and wishful thinking. Not that we all don't spend time in wishful thinking. I was sad to see the demise of the family mussel car. Of the sweet sound of those old 440 wedges, 426 Hemis, 427 Rat motors and 427-428 Fords. But those days are gone as well. |
|
|
Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 15, 2008 12:30 pm) My 1970 Challenger had four pedals under the dash, 1) Gas, 2) Brake, 3) Clutch, and 4) Parking Brake.  Best regards, Shipo
|
|
|
Replying to: shipo (Oct 15, 2008 4:28 pm) 
|
|
You are here:
Forums
Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
