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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5809 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 12:30 PM
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Replying to: myershift (Oct 14, 2008 8:51 pm) The vast majority of the U.S. is not composed of dense urban areas." Do you think that generalization is true? Could the reverse be true if we said Europeans were too cheap to buy automatics? I think it is simply personal preference. Americans see vehicles as they are, tools, nothing more. Much like using a browser to surf the web we don't type in addresses we click with the mouse. Shoot I don't know many people who know what Hyper text transfer protocall is yet they see it every time the get on the web. It seems to me that generally Americans are looking for ease of use in a tool. We can buy hand tools with laser levelers and line projectors even from Sears. Somehow it is viewed as an improvement over drawing a line and following it with a groove in front of the blade of a circular saw. It seems as if there is a minority of us, American consumers, that are willing to ascribe some form of anthropomorphic qualities to Cars, motorcycles, boats and sometimes planes. To those few enthusiasts ease of use is far less important than tradition. I often hear words like, feeling at one with the vehicle or road when in truth that isn't possible because one is a machine and the other is an inanimate object. It all breaks down into simple preferences. Once that is realized the reasons for a manufacturer offering any option becomes purely business. If 91 percent of your customers are buying one option you should put 91 percent of your effort into supporting their ability to get that option. You don't need to pay much attention to the 8 or 9 percent that prefer the old technology because their loyalty will keep them and if you lose them they will simply buy the option that you are placing most of your effort. It has never been a debate on what we like better personally. It is on the future of manuals verses whatever other challenge it faces. It is a little like animal management. Once an animals population falls below a set point we move to declare it an endangered species. Sometimes that effort can save the animal and sometimes it can't. Right now with the direction the US is going the manual driver is an endangered species. That to me is the future of the manual in the US.
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 14, 2008 9:03 pm) I've noticed that the newer autos have *much* less creep built-in, probably to save gas, I imagine. In some cases, going uphill, you let off the brake and an automatic will actually roll backwards a little. My Sienna does that. It will only creep forward a tiny bit, if it's flat or down hill. Let's remember than a manual trans will basically roll with any hills, too. Only BMW, Mini, and Subaru offer hill holder features to prevent roll back.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 15, 2008 7:18 am) Yup, my latest was an '07 Mustang I drove just a few weeks ago while my car was in the body shop. Terrible automatic in every aspect of its operation, including VERY healthy creep in traffic. Let's remember than a manual trans will basically roll with any hills, too. Only BMW, Mini, and Subaru offer hill holder features to prevent roll back. Sure, and every single other model sold with a manual offers the use of a hand brake, which with a little judicious use of the right hand will accomplish exactly the same thing. Of course, your Sienna with its automatic and foot-operated parking brake does not offer you as much in the way of options. Oh, and elias would lose his bet with me too. Many modern econoboxes, mine included, have very light clutches, and the extra control of the third pedal is especially appreciated in stop and go traffic.
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I feel that I must say something here. I've driven automatics most of my life. My 06 330i, that I leased for three years, had a steptronic transmission which was, at the time, one of the best steps (performance oriented semi-manual/auto transmission) in the world! It was loads of fun and convenient. I found my self however in automatic mode 95% of the times, and down shifting/stepping manually during spirited occations when I wanted a burst of accelleration. I thought things couldn't get better. Now, I have an 08 335i with 6spd manual transmission. During the first 2 weeks, shifting was frustrating..especially 1st and 2nd. Nearly all manual BMW's these days have a wierd rattle when going from 1st to 2nd while the clutch is disengaged (pressed down). It turns out, this only happens when you shift, I would call it, impropperly, but others might say sub optimally. Anyhow, let me tell you guys.. if your goal is to enjoy the essence of driving..whether it be casual, spirited, or hard core racing... If the goal is to appreciate the drive, and to have the most fun!... Get the manual transmission! Hands down. If however, your goal is to efficiently drive around while maximizing convienence. Or in other words, to get from point A to B, very swiftly if you wish, yet with minimum fuss. If 90% results with 10% effort matters to you. If you don't relish in optimizing engine torque and controlling precisely what kind of rev you want. If you don't want to 100% control throttle response during a tight yet spirited bend. Another words, if you just wanna drive well, very well, and aren't very interested in participating more intimitely, which affords you the opportunity in improving slightly the drive's performance, in the process. If FUN is important to you, but within moderation. If it isn't really important to you that you get the ultimate funness out of your drive.. Well, then.. you'd do better to get an automatic. I hope that explains it to you guys who are wondering..and I know there's alot of you out there. By the way, I'd say that manuals are probably not for everyone,..but Are for most people..and the real problem is,.. many of those people just don't know it. I believe that presents a large prospective market for the auto industry to capitalize on. The fact that many Americans would probably be happier with a manual, in my opinion I should say, is a real marketing opportunity I believe. Question is, how can auto-makers make money outta selling a cheaper sprocket (manuals are simplier than auto-matics usually)? Manuals are funner, they work very well, are realiable, cheaper, and present less load to the engine. Manuals WORK and are more FUN! If they ain't broke, we shouldn't be tryin so hard to Fix'em??? That last statement is in regards to all the development for sophisticated sports orientated semi-manual-auto transmissions (SMG, DSG, ..). There's still a need for automatics.. for those whom are incapable or really don't value fun anymore, or for those who live near exceededly congested traffic jams.  . But, I'd venture to say that for most folk out there.. manual is truely the way to go. And this is comming from one who is now driving his first manual car. Joseph San Diego
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Replying to: jmaroun (Oct 15, 2008 9:18 am) As someone posted earlier driving for most people is a necessary chore. Driving a manual is more interesting but it is also something that requires dedication and attention. Cell phones, computers, Ipods remote control is what people see as advancement. We are getting to the point where our equipment is better at its assigned task than we as humans. Take jet aircraft, without fly by wire we humans couldn't fly one in combat without getting shot down. Take F-1 racing, WRC, Alms cars, without paddle shifters the best human driver simply can't win a race. Manuals fall some place in between pure technology and tradition. People had to learn to drive and learn how to drive a manual. Our society is looking for a simpler and easier way. The purpose of a car is to move us more efficiently from one place to another. A minority of drivers enjoy the process most take it for granted. We aren't going to change we are always going to look for the easier way of doing things. Give a man a better tool that is easier to use and sooner or later the old tool falls out of favor and only the very dedicated will buy the old tool. It seems as if we are going to have dedicated manual drivers with us for quite some time but their numbers are slowly dwindling as we change our automotive preferences. The Automatic drivers will simply have more choices and the manual drivers will have to settle for whatever the manufacturers will give them. when people first started buying Mini vans you could get one with a manual. As they became more popular fewer and fewer people bought them. Then one day just about every manufacturer stopped making them for the American market. Didn't mean you couldn't buy a manual just that you couldn't get one in a Mini Van of your choice. Some thing happened with SUVs. For those who loved the Nissan Maxima and were loyal to it what choice do they now have? They can't get a Murano or Rouge either. It is not the manufacturers fault it is the consumer and what they are willing to spend their money on. If you want a Hybrid what choice do you have? Manuals have simply become an after thought in the automotive marketing world in the US.
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) Oh, and elias would lose his bet with me too. Many modern econoboxes, mine included, have very light clutches, and the extra control of the third pedal is especially appreciated in stop and go traffic. IIRC, a few cars now have electro-mechanical clutch pedals. No actual hydraulics.(it trips a solenoid instead) So if you want a super light clutch, all you have to do is adjust the spring.
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) Neither surges forward, though. That would bother me, too. Question - do any manuals have floor-mounted parking brakes? That would be odd. For my Miata, I use the hand brake to exit my parking garage at work, which is fairly steep. On that ramp my Sienna will drift back a bit, but the Forester (auto) doesn't.
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Replying to: elias (Oct 15, 2008 2:57 am) That's actually not entirely true ... I prefer a manual in just about any circumstance because it gives me more control with the car - that said, "more control" is a question of what you're used to. I learnt to drive in a manual, and I drive almost entirely with the clutch - I basically step on the break only in emergencies, I regulate the transmission to the wheels with the clutch (someone experienced can easily make a car stand still with just the gas pedal and the clutch). I feel I have a lot less control with an automatic, e.g. with parking, in a real traffic jam, i.e. in any situation where I need to carefully regulate the speed. (To the extent that I'm always afraid to hit something - I still don't understand how not to make the car jerk around without a clutch ... in a manual I just gradually release the throttle, I can move the car half an inch forward smoothly ... in an automatic, I'm either pressing the break or the gas - the stupid thing creeps, and I keep stop-and-go jerking around when parking.) It's second nature, I'm used to it. However - I know people who are used to automatics, and they have similar control problems on manuals ... I don't actually think either of them is "better" - it's just a matter of driving style. |
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 15, 2008 7:38 am) I have a steep ramp exiting my garage at work, and I'd say our 09 Forester auto handles it best, maintaining its position. The Sienna slides back a little. My manual Miata slides back a lot - so I use the hand brake trick. You kinda have to.
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 15, 2008 10:40 am) I must dissagree that most people in the US know what they're doing when they choose an automatic over a manual. I believe most Americans are ignorant about manuals. What I mean is, I believe that most Americans choose automatics simply because they don't know how to drive manual..and thus do not have the benifit of comparing the two side by side. Buying cars is a relatively expensive affair, and thus folks will naturally tend towards the less risky choice. On the contrary, everyone I know that has driven both manual and auto for more than say..two months... has told me that the manual is more fun and that they'd prefer a manual over an automatic. Granted, the extreme older of these folks settle down with an automatic eventually... after years of manual driving. For fun oriented cars then, such as BMW's, Mazdas, Corvettes, and such..I believe most Americans would choose a manual, if only they had first hand experience with both transmissions apriori. Another words, Most folks would pick a manual with the Pepsi challenge. Also for economic cars such as the Mitshibishi Eclypse or Honda Civic..cars like these are purchased usually by younger folk who are naturally interested in fun. It's too bad, due to ignorance, these people do not know what they are missing. For consumers of Hondas and Camrys and the like.. especially for Camry oriented mindset.. I agree.. probably their decision for automatic is correctly suited. I believe a huge market for manuals exists right here in the US..it is up to someone to effectively demonstrate or educate to the consumers what in fact they are missing out on. Joseph San Diego
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