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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5809 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 12:30 PM
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Replying to: plekto (Oct 14, 2008 3:17 pm) |
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 13, 2008 8:37 pm) Well. . .I'm not so sure. The Toyoda system says that there's no point in doing anything that the customer doesn't notice or care about. Many corporations put stuff in their products because they think it's best, without regard to whether the ultimate user notices or gives a rip, often at considerable expense. Elsewhere it's called the least (or lowest) common denominator. Join the masses! Or not.
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Replying to: cdnpinhead (Oct 14, 2008 6:36 pm) In Europe, it's about technological advancement and improvement. Witness Volkswagen/Audi's ingenious DSG which features twin clutch packs; one for odd numbered gears, and one for even gears. I believe that most automobiles in the U.S. are equipped with automatic transmissions because are Americans are too lazy to be bothered with the art of shifting themselves or are just unable to. The vast majority of the U.S. is not composed of dense urban areas. An exceptional number of automobiles in Europe are equipped with manual transmissions. has anyone noticed that European automakers outsource their automatic transmissions in several instances (BMW using a GM-built 5-speed HydraMatic in some models) while American automakers generally outsource their manuals due to lower popularity of this transmission type (the Chevrolet Cobalt features a Getrag manual for instance). And, some brands most certainly wouldn't feature manual transmissions if the principal clientele choose automatics instead. Frankly, I'm shocked that Toyota continues to offer a manual in the Camry while Dodge and Chevrolet have none at all in their midsizers. A Honda or Volkswagen with a manual seems quite natural due to the driver oriented natures of the cars versus a squishy commuter.
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Replying to: stickguy (Oct 14, 2008 12:08 pm) That is one of the things that REALLY annoys me about automatics.
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 14, 2008 9:03 pm) also i don't believe the dude that says he prefers a manual transmission in 'traffic', if the dude is meaning a traffic jam... like for the entire length of the NJ turnpike. I bet anyone who says they prefer manual trans in a traffic jam hasn't driven in a real traffic jam with a real manual transmission!
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Replying to: elias (Oct 15, 2008 2:57 am)  I've owned manual transmissioned vehicles all of my driving life, and during those years, I've lived in San Diego, Los Angeles, Cupertino, Atlanta, Chicago, Detroit, New York, and Boston, and I've driven through literally thousands of traffic jams. Believe it or not, I've never once wished I had an automatic transmission in whatever car I was driving. In fact, the only two times in my driving life that I was forced by circumstances (once economic and once due to a badly broken leg) to drive a car with an automatic transmission, I found myself counting the days until I could get back into a car with a stick. Best regards, Shipo |
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Replying to: myershift (Oct 14, 2008 8:51 pm) The vast majority of the U.S. is not composed of dense urban areas." Do you think that generalization is true? Could the reverse be true if we said Europeans were too cheap to buy automatics? I think it is simply personal preference. Americans see vehicles as they are, tools, nothing more. Much like using a browser to surf the web we don't type in addresses we click with the mouse. Shoot I don't know many people who know what Hyper text transfer protocall is yet they see it every time the get on the web. It seems to me that generally Americans are looking for ease of use in a tool. We can buy hand tools with laser levelers and line projectors even from Sears. Somehow it is viewed as an improvement over drawing a line and following it with a groove in front of the blade of a circular saw. It seems as if there is a minority of us, American consumers, that are willing to ascribe some form of anthropomorphic qualities to Cars, motorcycles, boats and sometimes planes. To those few enthusiasts ease of use is far less important than tradition. I often hear words like, feeling at one with the vehicle or road when in truth that isn't possible because one is a machine and the other is an inanimate object. It all breaks down into simple preferences. Once that is realized the reasons for a manufacturer offering any option becomes purely business. If 91 percent of your customers are buying one option you should put 91 percent of your effort into supporting their ability to get that option. You don't need to pay much attention to the 8 or 9 percent that prefer the old technology because their loyalty will keep them and if you lose them they will simply buy the option that you are placing most of your effort. It has never been a debate on what we like better personally. It is on the future of manuals verses whatever other challenge it faces. It is a little like animal management. Once an animals population falls below a set point we move to declare it an endangered species. Sometimes that effort can save the animal and sometimes it can't. Right now with the direction the US is going the manual driver is an endangered species. That to me is the future of the manual in the US.
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 14, 2008 9:03 pm) I've noticed that the newer autos have *much* less creep built-in, probably to save gas, I imagine. In some cases, going uphill, you let off the brake and an automatic will actually roll backwards a little. My Sienna does that. It will only creep forward a tiny bit, if it's flat or down hill. Let's remember than a manual trans will basically roll with any hills, too. Only BMW, Mini, and Subaru offer hill holder features to prevent roll back.
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Replying to: ateixeira (Oct 15, 2008 7:18 am) Yup, my latest was an '07 Mustang I drove just a few weeks ago while my car was in the body shop. Terrible automatic in every aspect of its operation, including VERY healthy creep in traffic. Let's remember than a manual trans will basically roll with any hills, too. Only BMW, Mini, and Subaru offer hill holder features to prevent roll back. Sure, and every single other model sold with a manual offers the use of a hand brake, which with a little judicious use of the right hand will accomplish exactly the same thing. Of course, your Sienna with its automatic and foot-operated parking brake does not offer you as much in the way of options. Oh, and elias would lose his bet with me too. Many modern econoboxes, mine included, have very light clutches, and the extra control of the third pedal is especially appreciated in stop and go traffic.
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I feel that I must say something here. I've driven automatics most of my life. My 06 330i, that I leased for three years, had a steptronic transmission which was, at the time, one of the best steps (performance oriented semi-manual/auto transmission) in the world! It was loads of fun and convenient. I found my self however in automatic mode 95% of the times, and down shifting/stepping manually during spirited occations when I wanted a burst of accelleration. I thought things couldn't get better. Now, I have an 08 335i with 6spd manual transmission. During the first 2 weeks, shifting was frustrating..especially 1st and 2nd. Nearly all manual BMW's these days have a wierd rattle when going from 1st to 2nd while the clutch is disengaged (pressed down). It turns out, this only happens when you shift, I would call it, impropperly, but others might say sub optimally. Anyhow, let me tell you guys.. if your goal is to enjoy the essence of driving..whether it be casual, spirited, or hard core racing... If the goal is to appreciate the drive, and to have the most fun!... Get the manual transmission! Hands down. If however, your goal is to efficiently drive around while maximizing convienence. Or in other words, to get from point A to B, very swiftly if you wish, yet with minimum fuss. If 90% results with 10% effort matters to you. If you don't relish in optimizing engine torque and controlling precisely what kind of rev you want. If you don't want to 100% control throttle response during a tight yet spirited bend. Another words, if you just wanna drive well, very well, and aren't very interested in participating more intimitely, which affords you the opportunity in improving slightly the drive's performance, in the process. If FUN is important to you, but within moderation. If it isn't really important to you that you get the ultimate funness out of your drive.. Well, then.. you'd do better to get an automatic. I hope that explains it to you guys who are wondering..and I know there's alot of you out there. By the way, I'd say that manuals are probably not for everyone,..but Are for most people..and the real problem is,.. many of those people just don't know it. I believe that presents a large prospective market for the auto industry to capitalize on. The fact that many Americans would probably be happier with a manual, in my opinion I should say, is a real marketing opportunity I believe. Question is, how can auto-makers make money outta selling a cheaper sprocket (manuals are simplier than auto-matics usually)? Manuals are funner, they work very well, are realiable, cheaper, and present less load to the engine. Manuals WORK and are more FUN! If they ain't broke, we shouldn't be tryin so hard to Fix'em??? That last statement is in regards to all the development for sophisticated sports orientated semi-manual-auto transmissions (SMG, DSG, ..). There's still a need for automatics.. for those whom are incapable or really don't value fun anymore, or for those who live near exceededly congested traffic jams.  . But, I'd venture to say that for most folk out there.. manual is truely the way to go. And this is comming from one who is now driving his first manual car. Joseph San Diego
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