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The Future Of The Manual Transmission

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#51 of 5809 manual drivers' clout by carlisimo Mar 15, 2005 (6:35 pm)
Well, stick drivers still control some enthusiast markets like the sport compact one, which is a significant one. But we're losing the exotic sport car market, and in the US midsized sport luxury sedans are starting to not even allow the possibility of manual transmissions.   But then there's Europe, where all but a few M-B buyers shift by themselves and like it that way. So anyone selling their stuff there has to at least design a manual transmission for their cars...   I don't know what the situation is in Japan, but they're moving towards automatics too. Fortunately, Honda's still a lot better at manuals.
#52 of 5809 odds and ends by stickguy Mar 15, 2005 (8:43 pm)
Japan might be a result of the traffic problems (small place, lots of cars). If all I ever did is drive in stop and go city or b-b highway, I would probably be shiftless tooo.   The only AT I can even sorta stand are with bigger engines, maybe because they aren't so noticable. 4 cyls, especially higher strung ones, are horrible with AT.   Worst part (after always being in the wrong gear)? The sound. They all sound funny accelerating in lower gears, and make an unnatural bang sound shifting up.   Not that I'm shallow or anything... Replies to this message: benderofbows (Mar 16, 2005 7:36 am)
#53 of 5809 Re: odds and ends [stickguy] by benderofbows Mar 16, 2005 (7:36 am)
Replying to: stickguy (Mar 15, 2005 8:43 pm) My beef with Autos comes when you really hit the gas hard from a dead stop. The ones I have driven just don't seem to like it, and I don't either because they feel like they are struggling and thus maybe wearing out. You know the feeling, the engine is revving but the car is lagging. When driving a manual you can get the car moving quickly without making it seem like you are dogging the tranny. In fact, if you do it right the car seems to like that more than a slow, clutch-riding start.
#54 of 5809 Hill Holder clutch by rsholland Mar 16, 2005 (8:05 am)
Anyone here ever drive a current generation Subaru Forester with that feature? It really makes starting off on hills a breeze—and is a great selling point for stick-shift newbies.   Bob
#55 of 5809 disagree with some notions by jimveta Mar 18, 2005 (12:50 am)
Ok, while I do agree that we always should have manuals as a choice, I'm probably the lone voice here at edmunds who will contend:   - manual transmissions are weaker by design; planetary gears meshed together are always stronger   - auto trannys with locking torque converters can be just as effecient as manuals   - I don't understand the notion of equating gear control with manual transmissions; as folks have mentioned, you can have such control with automatics, albeit electronically for production cars or optionally, mechanically for aftermarket i.e. removing the "auto" out of automatic   - torque converters offer torque multiplication up to stall speed; turbocharged cars can use higher stalling coverters to quickly load them and overcome lag--something that can't be done with a manual (outside of other very limited use devices like a two-step, or limited use methods like dumping the clutch at WOT)
#56 of 5809 jimveta by seminole_kev Mar 18, 2005 (6:03 am)
I believe those to be valid points except with gear control/selection. With a manual tranny I can tell it exactly what gear I want, when I want it and how quick/fast I want it to engauge. Even with the latest "shiftable" automatics, you do not have that level of control on the fly.   Most of the time I shifty fairly quick, but of course that is a little "rougher" for passenger comfort. When I have someone else in the car, I tend to shift slower and smoother. When I've got to scoot in a hurry, I slam through the gears. Some times you need a combination of those types on the fly.
#57 of 5809 by wale_bate1 Mar 18, 2005 (9:16 am)
Kev:   You may need to try DSG and then come back and edit that post! I can't claim firt-hand experience, but the scuttlebutt is "control", and "lightning fast".   Unless you're skip-shifting (something a sequential can't do), nothing will shift faster, and there ain't no TC.   Now daysailer, if he's still around, will rail against the TC as a concept, but I harbor no such ill-will. I readily concede that many in this world would not be driving at all but for this invention. That said, without a shift-kit, I find them all to be far too soft an interface. A lot of that is because of the press and their need to always trumpet the smoothest-shifting auto, I think. The problem, of course isn't when they're locked up at freeway speed, but rather in the slushy feeling getting there and back again. I agree, there's nothing like a clutch to erase the blur.   I stopped wanting to exercize my left leg some years back in traffic, because I realized it was only giving me any measureable pleasurable results about 3% of the time I was in the car. Now that my commute is over hill and dale and curvy, I sometimes miss it, but frankly not that much. Even with their faults, manumatics have come quite a long way with regard to power band control in motion. For the (still) small fraction of drive time that a manual would be really useful and fun, I can live with the faults personally. Or maybe I'm getting soft...   I will probably go DSG next go round. That's the way it's looking today. Replies to this message: andys120 (Mar 18, 2005 10:07 am) wale_bate1 (Mar 18, 2005 10:12 am)
#58 of 5809 Re: [wale_bate1] by andys120 Mar 18, 2005 (10:07 am)
Replying to: wale_bate1 (Mar 18, 2005 9:16 am) I have driven a DSG Audi TT 3.2 and I can attest that coupled with a good motor DSG's an absolute gas and will go up or down gears faster than you could possibly do it "manually".   fr jimveta - auto trannys with locking torque converters can be just as efficient as manuals   I s'pose that is theoretically possible but there's little evidence in the real world and the seat of my pants tells me there's some power being lost in the translation thru the TC.   Word is the DSG is more efficient than either a manual or TC Auto. Porsche will be next to adopt this type of gearbox (built by Borg Warner), others will not be far behind.   "Try it you'll like it." Replies to this message: wale_bate1 (Mar 18, 2005 10:12 am)
#59 of 5809 Re: [andys120] by wale_bate1 Mar 18, 2005 (10:12 am)
Replying to: andys120 (Mar 18, 2005 10:07 am) Well, of course, you're a major contributor to the scuttlebutt I offered!   Sure sounds like the future of trannies to me.
#60 of 5809 Wale by seminole_kev Mar 18, 2005 (10:27 am)
but I can't vary the speed of engagement on the fly though (ie let out the clutch slower or faster). At least some of the DSG's can be set as far as how fast it engages, but you can't vary it on the fly like you can with a clutch pedal.   That said, the DSG's do intrest me greatly and I'd much rather have one over a slushbox.

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