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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5807 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 12, 2008 8:48 pm)
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 13, 2008 5:43 am)
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Replying to: nippononly (Oct 13, 2008 7:26 am) But the question is why did Toyota release it as a Automatic? If commuting hasn't contributed to Toyota's marketing of automatics in commuter cars what has? It should be easy to see the consumer is voting with their wallet and Toyota wants to get as much of that vote as they can. If Manuals were better for commuting for the average person then by logic more commuters would drive manuals. But they don't and Toyota must have figured that out.
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 13, 2008 3:07 pm)
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 13, 2008 5:43 am) Oh - the largest vehilcle with a manual transmission other than the big GMC and Ford commercial trucks (GMC 4500 for instance) are the larger cargo vans(van conversion, of course... heh). Second are the larger full size pickups. A few are still available with manuals. For cars, though, You're stuck with essentially Volvos, Saabs, the Cadillac CTS, and a few specific BMWs and Mercedes (note the European theme?)
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Replying to: plekto (Oct 13, 2008 10:23 pm) My point is still, if manuals were easier to drive or better, as some contend, then why have more than 90 percent of American Consumers decided to pay extra for an commuter car with an Automatic? You can't on one hand say the manual is easier to drive and on the other accuse the consumers of being lazy. There is some logic missing here. Something has made the manual fall from grace as the "standard" transmission over the years. From all reports Asians are moving in the same direction we are with CVTs and other automatic transmissions even in their small cars. we constantly hear in these forums that manuals are better, easier, more efficient and yet they have been rejected by the majority of American consumers. Europe's automotive preferences have had far less impact on the US than has Asia's That tread isn't likely to change nor is the availability of manuals. Some have suggested that sports cars will be the last bastion of the manual and that could well be. But to the American consumer new and improved means easier to use. The question stands, why if there is a clear advantage to manuals in commuter traffic would consumers reject them and pay more for an automatic at the rate of 9 to 1?
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 14, 2008 7:53 am) Probably because the "clear advantage" is not so clear. Is driving a manual easier? Well, no, not if you measure relative activity - no left foot clutch action, no right hand gear changing, no listening for where the engine is revving to, no looking at the tach for any real info. All that extra "work!" The advantage of possibly better economy is not readily apparent. For most people this is something that they heard once, but unless they drive the same route with two cars identical except for transmission, it's an academic issue. I drive a stick, love driving it, and don't plan doing anything else, however, I will tell you that my car's design kinda makes it that coffee bought on the road gets consumed AT the rest stop (you try using the cupholder in an E39 BMW, you'll understand), but then, I'm not a huge car/food person, anyway. For so many driving is a chore, and a car is an appliance - at best, driving is like really, really fast walking - it gets them from here to there, but if you were to suggest doing it if they did not have to, they'd look at you like you had two heads. So yes, for many (most?) easier, or non-involved is definitely a better idea... these are the same folk that love that there is a Lexus that can park for you, and secretly wish for the autopilot (Look Marge, I just get in, select a destination, and go to sleep... it beeps the horn when I get there! What will they think of next?!) I still believe that the fringe will continue to be there. And I plan being one of them. |
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Replying to: boaz47 (Oct 14, 2008 7:53 am) OTOH, just leave it in drive or shift the A/T manually for the same effect and it is much easier in stop/go situations. If you consider sheer ease of operation, the A/T wins. If you prefer more control and more work, shift yourself and the M/T wins. However, I submit you have just as much control manually shifting a good A/T as the M/T provides in traffic. Regards, OW
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we constantly hear in these forums that manuals are better, easier, more efficient and yet they have been rejected by the majority of American consumers. 1. Better: Pretty subjective. Depends on what you are looking for. Obviously there are plenty of folks who feel an automatic is "better". I disagree, of course.  2. Easier: Some have said they are easier to drive in traffic jams. However, if one doesn't know how to use a manual, they certainly wouldn't be easier. I am also well aware that there are many who feel an automatic is easier in traffic. I accept that I am in a minority. 3. More efficient: I know that some argue this as automatics get better but I still feel that manuals are more efficient in the mpg dept. Personally, I don't think it matters why automatics are more popular. I'm very aware that they are. I also know that they will always be that way now simply because more young drivers will never learn how to drive a stick. Mom and dad have an automatic and that's all they learn how to drive. My kids are an exception.
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Replying to: circlew (Oct 14, 2008 9:32 am) That's what I was talking about... I disagree. I find the manual easier in traffic. Again, I'm very aware that many disagree.
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