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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5807 messages, Last post on Nov 26, 2009 at 7:20 AM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: andys120 (Sep 06, 2008 10:23 am) If the guys at Fifth Gear couldn't come remotely close to the listed times(on an actual drag strip/flat test track), you have to wonder how much of it is lying or someone doing really brutal things to that car. Even the Ariel Atom was a full second slower than the published time no matter how hard they flogged it. They asked the manufacturer about it on the show and they were adamant that it would do the listed time. The host's face was obviously showing that he wasn't buying it. My guess is that most manufacturers do their tests on a dyno. This of course would largely negate road friction, initial time to hook up/get traction, and wind resistance. They also tend to make 2nd gear silly tall to not require a shift to 3rd before 60-65mph to get better bragging rights. But then again, seriously - have you ever kept a car in 2nd gear with an automatic until it hit the rev limiter? If it's a Ford or GM, it'll sound like the thing is about to grenade on you. No sane person would do it, which is why these figures are not even close to being realistic. |
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The quality of the shifts are terrible on most cars unless you're driving a high-end model or a Honda. I've driven a Toyota Yaris with a five-speed manual and gawd, selecting between gears was no fun with vague and rubbery "feel" during shifting.  With dual-clutch transmissions getting better and better, within a few years we'll see DCT's that have the same fuel economy as a real manual but with vastly smoother shifts between gears.
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are alike. Not all automatics are alike either. Typical of CR and their toaster testers they had a theory and ran a test designed to prove it. There has been a general agreement in this forum that CVTs, DSGs, DCTs, and SMTs are all automatics. Did CR test against any of these transmissions? Not likely because that goes against their typical methods. CR is after all part of the media. The consumer knows what they want and spends their hard earned money buying it. If the consumer was clamoring for manuals manufacturers would be falling all over themselves making more manuals. We can either believe in private tests from CR or tests from the EPA. But in the end the results from the EPA will be posted on the window of the cars and trucks we buy not the results of CR. Manuals have their place and many of the drivers in these forums more than likely can get the best out of them. But many of the posters on these forums are simply not numerous enough to effect the percentages of produced manuals verses Automatics. The R&D is going into Automatics and consumer is seeing the results. Shoot Nissan is now advertising the Maxima as a sports Sedan and what kind of transmission do they have?
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Replying to: boaz47 (Sep 08, 2008 11:59 am) EPA numbers overall favor manuals anyway, just not as much as CR. |
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Replying to: lemmer (Sep 08, 2008 12:36 pm) Yeah, they do. I don't know if it is still true with current automatics, but in Europe the rule of thumb says: 'manuals yield better fuel economy than automatics'. Regards, Jose |
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Replying to: lemmer (Sep 08, 2008 12:36 pm) 
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Replying to: bristol2 (Sep 08, 2008 1:09 pm)
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Replying to: lemmer (Sep 08, 2008 1:34 pm) |
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Replying to: raychuang00 (Sep 08, 2008 10:28 am) That's true. Toyota especially should be ashamed of its shifters these days, but then they are on my short list of manufacturers that will be earliest to dump the manual altogether... I was totally unimpressed with the shifters in the BMW 330i I tried out, and in the VW Rabbit. The one in the A3 was a little better, but still not great, and the one in the Mercedes C300 "Sport" I tried was worse. Honda, OTOH, is perhaps the last automaker left putting an effort into making great manuals. It shows in the quality of the shifts. (It's a good thing for them too, as their automatics are fragile to say the least). And the shifter in the Mini Cooper, well that's a goodie too!  Subaru shifters tend to be in between, with good definition of the gates but a touch too much notchiness. Regardless, I will still go with the manual over the automatic. You want to try out a shifter that is TOTALLY uninspiring some time, try out the one in my Matrix. The thing feels like it will break off in my hand if I try to hustle it through the gear change faster than it is comfortable with...and the rest of the time, "rubbery" is its middle name. With all the other things conspiring to bring about the end of manuals as we know them, it doesn't help that automakers aren't spending the parts money to make them the best they can be. And here's where I call again for car designers to gear the manuals similarly to the automatics in performance, so that they can accomplish the LARGE fuel savings they are capable of if given the proper chance... |
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Replying to: raychuang00 (Sep 08, 2008 10:28 am) Its funny that you cited a manufacturer that hasn't had a real sports car since the 90s. I would argue..well not even argue, they are the worst of the important brands. I would say Honda, then Mazda (although the S2000 and Miata are both kind of in their own league) and then Subaru. I haven't driven a Mtisu stick recently, athough my 80s Galant was fine. With dual-clutch transmissions getting better and better, within a few years we'll see DCT's that have the same fuel economy as a real manual but with vastly smoother shifts between gears. Yup, in something that will cost more than an automatic so the general car buying public won't be so excited about it, and still wont be a real manual so the hold outs wont like it either. Sounds like a win win. |
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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
