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Automotive News & Views The Future Of The Manual Transmission
5809 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 12:30 PM
You are in the Automotive News & Views Forum. Your Hosts are steve_ & claires
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Replying to: dudleyr (Sep 04, 2008 8:05 am) And good God! Look at those acceleration times - more than a second faster to 60 in most cases, and NONE of these are sport models except possibly the Mini. Just IMAGINE how much these automakers could boost their fuel economy if they geared them to be only as fast as the automatic versions!! When will they wake up and smell the $4 gas? |
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Yes - you can see a little bit of the gearing difference in the chart. Toyota tends to gear their small cars quite tall - not so much different than the automatic verison, and the Scion has the least gain in 0-60 (.7 seconds), but the greatest gain in mpg (5 mpg) To get the 0-60 time down to the automatic numbers you could probably put in a smaller more efficient engine and really gain in mpg. For example - the manual Civic goes to 60 in 8.6 and the automatic Accord does it in 9.8. If you added 500 lbs to a manual Civic would that 8.6 still be under 9.8? If so that engine in an Accord would offer the acceleration of the automatic with mpg that is significantly imporved (somewhere between the 31 mpg of the Civic MT and the 26 mpg of the Accord MT) Now the Civic 1.8 may not be the ideal choice - I only mention it because Honda makes both vehicles and they were both on the chart. A 2.0 or 2.2 liter engine in an Accord may be a better choice and could offer astounding mpg for the size vehicle while still beating the typical Accord (with an AT) to 60 mph.
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Replying to: nippononly (Sep 04, 2008 8:56 pm) As for the differences in gearing, most of that one second advantage in 0-60 times would disappear if taller final drives were introduced into manual versions. Do you think anyone can detect a one second difference in 0-60 times except with a stopwatch? There are lots of good reasons to prefer a manual over an auto but mileage and acceleration times are no longer a factor. |
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Replying to: andys120 (Sep 05, 2008 6:12 am) Also, if taller final drive ratios were introduced into manual versions, they would increase their highway MPG. That's the point.
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Replying to: andys120 (Sep 05, 2008 6:12 am) Everything I've read or experienced personally is the complete opposite. While the two may be much closer these days, there is still a difference. For example, when I test drove an auto and stick Accord back to back a couple of years ago the acceleration and response was very different in the manual. Sounds like CR would disagree with you too. 
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Replying to: lemmer (Sep 05, 2008 6:30 am) I agree. Highway mileage is very close and sometimes actually better in the auto because of the taller gearing. City and overall mileage is better in the manual. |
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"Do you think anyone can detect a one second difference in 0-60 times except with a stopwatch? " Interesting since the I4 MT Accord is only 1 second slower (7.4 vs. 8.4 using CR numbers again) than the AT V-6. Not much point in the V-6 then is there - probably can't tell the difference. As far as taller final drives go - there is a magic bullet. No need to change final drive - put in an extra gear (6th) and keep the first 5 the same. That way you have identical acceleration and better highway mpg. |
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"Do you think anyone can detect a one second difference in 0-60 times except with a stopwatch? " Interesting since the I4 MT Accord is only 1 second slower (7.4 vs. 8.4 using CR numbers again) than the AT V-6. Not much point in the V-6 then is there - probably can't tell the difference. As far as taller final drives go - there is a magic bullet. No need to change final drive - put in an extra gear (6th) and keep the first 5 the same. That way you have identical acceleration and better highway mpg.
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what you guys are going to say as these twin-clutch sequentials with only 2 pedals are introduced and achieve both better mileage and better acceleration than their three pedal counterparts. I believe that is already the case with the PDK-equipped '09 Porsche 911 Carrera. My guess is you'll say the difference is statistically insignificant. 
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That is pie in the sky. We are talking about right now with cars that most people buy - the difference is staggering.
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