Toyota Prius Software Problems - READ ONLY

752 messages, Last post on Sep 10, 2006 at 5:54 PM

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#8 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [gagrice] by joebeatt Mar 16, 2005 (1:14 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 12:56 am) My analogy is valid. The point I am making is that it is impossible to make software that is 100% bugfree. Windows failed all by itself for years, it didn't need hackers. My computer was not connected to the internet from 1985 to 1998 and still Windows failed 10 times a day. You say: "Windows is bombarded with software from outside vendors". Well, my computer wasn't bombarded because I would only run a few Microsoft applications on it. Furthermore the Prius computers also have to talk to embedded microprocessors in all kind of components. I agree that a Prius software problem can be more dangerous than a Windows problem, although that depends on what you use your Windows for. However that has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make and that is that 100% bug free software is an illusion and that you will always need time to reach a more or less stable version. Finally you ask: "What other cars beside the hybrids are plagued with these software glitches that cause the car to quit going down the highway?" Well, I had a Mercedes E320 that I had to bring in for a software patch. They had noticed that in some cases the BAS (brake assistant) would just fully lock the brakes for no reason. A few Mercedeses came to a grinding halt on the Autobahn. As far as I know it didn't cause any accidents, but it could have. I have also heard of BMWs having serious software problems. Replies to this message: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 1:37 am) joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am) md_sailor (Mar 16, 2005 7:02 am) and 12 more... sganarelle (Mar 30, 2005 8:40 pm) joebeatt (Mar 31, 2005 12:58 am) stevedebi (Mar 31, 2005 2:04 pm) and 10 more... gagrice (Mar 31, 2005 8:13 pm)
#9 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [joebeatt] by gagrice Mar 16, 2005 (1:37 am)
Replying to: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:14 am) A few Mercedeses came to a grinding halt on the Autobahn. That is a real problem. I like computers, I question if they belong in our cars. Failures happen but I have never owned a car that just failed. Even my worst cars since my first 1947 Pontiac always gave warning of impending problems. Replies to this message: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am) md_sailor (Mar 16, 2005 7:02 am) joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 8:28 am) stevedebi (Mar 16, 2005 1:58 pm) and 10 more... sganarelle (Mar 30, 2005 8:40 pm) joebeatt (Mar 31, 2005 12:58 am) stevedebi (Mar 31, 2005 2:04 pm) gagrice (Mar 31, 2005 5:35 pm) and 6 more... sganarelle (Mar 31, 2005 7:44 pm) and 2 more... gagrice (Mar 31, 2005 8:13 pm)
#10 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [gagrice] by joebeatt Mar 16, 2005 (1:48 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 1:37 am) Hi gagrice. I see your point, but the thing is that computers make our cars what they are today. I find it amazing how the car industry has made progress over the last 30 years. Last month a drove a car my father had 30 years ago and you can't imagine the difference it makes. Starting the engine, the steering, the brakes, the airco, you name it, it's all much smoother nowadays than it was before. To a large extent this is due to the fact that these things are now computer controlled. Of course the added complexity is a problem, but for me the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. Furthermore I think that the cases where computers in cars saved lives (ABS, ESP, quicker response of engines to get out of a dangerous situation) far outweigh the cases where computers killed people because of software glitches. Replies to this message: md_sailor (Mar 16, 2005 7:02 am) joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 8:28 am) stevedebi (Mar 16, 2005 1:58 pm) raj786 (May 03, 2005 10:58 am) and 7 more... pdahlin (Sep 07, 2006 6:50 pm) and 1 more...
#11 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [joebeatt] by md_sailor Mar 16, 2005 (7:02 am)
Replying to: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am) Toyota is not investigating these failures properly, no one from Toyota with any technical knowledge about the computers has contacted me or reviewed the case. Instead, they had a person call me to say that they would not answer my detailed technical questions about the failure because this would involve "proprietary" information. The dealers just report that the car stopped, no further details are sent back to Toyota. The same software is just reloaded to replace the scrambled code in the Engine Control Module (ECM) and the customer is sent on the way. This is obviously In System Programmable (ISP) code, and it is getting corrupted when the computer fails. Not a good design and one that needs investigation. A conscientious company would work on the problem instead of ignoring it. I sent a two page FAX to Toyota Customer Service, FAX: 310-468-7814 Does anyone have the direct contact info. for the Nat. Highway Safety Institute? Replies to this message: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 8:28 am) stevedebi (Mar 16, 2005 1:58 pm) raj786 (May 03, 2005 10:58 am) refields (May 16, 2005 11:23 am) and 6 more... pdahlin (Sep 07, 2006 6:50 pm) midnightcowboy (Sep 08, 2006 5:42 am)
#12 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [md_sailor] by joebeatt Mar 16, 2005 (8:28 am)
Replying to: md_sailor (Mar 16, 2005 7:02 am) That's a shame md_sailor. Did you consider sending a fax and/or e-mail to Toyota headquarters in Japan?
#13 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [md_sailor] by stevedebi Mar 16, 2005 (1:58 pm)
Replying to: md_sailor (Mar 16, 2005 7:02 am) "Does anyone have the direct contact info. for the Nat. Highway Safety Institute?" I encourage everyone with a software problem to open a complaint with the National Highway Transportation Safety Board: http://www-odi.nhtsa.dot.gov/ivoq/ Only by reporting the problems will the solution be forced on the manufacturors. Interesting, I just checked on the 2004 Prius and there were about 6 complaints of various problems that sounded like software / ECU related (car stopped dead, etc). In several cases, the dealer said the software had to be either updated or reprogrammed. For one thing there appears to be a TSB on the ECU software. BTW, that is about 1/5th of the total complaints registered for the 2004 Prius. Replies to this message: raj786 (May 03, 2005 10:58 am) refields (May 16, 2005 11:23 am) sinepman (May 16, 2005 11:41 am) and 5 more... pdahlin (Sep 07, 2006 6:50 pm) midnightcowboy (Sep 08, 2006 5:42 am)
#14 of 752 MY2005 by jkraft3 Mar 24, 2005 (11:26 am)
Are there continuing software problems with model year 2005? Replies to this message: sunny9 (Apr 12, 2005 6:29 pm) grafstein (Jan 23, 2006 2:17 pm) fndlyfmrflyr (Jan 23, 2006 6:58 pm)
#15 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [joebeatt] by mb1 Mar 28, 2005 (2:12 pm)
Replying to: joebeatt (Mar 15, 2005 11:28 pm) Window was released in 1995 not 1985 are you thinking msdos? Sheesh get your dates right will ya? Lived it! Replies to this message: stevedebi (Mar 28, 2005 2:27 pm) gagrice (Mar 28, 2005 3:17 pm) boysboysboys (Mar 29, 2005 9:29 am) and 25 more... joebeatt (Mar 29, 2005 7:52 am)
#16 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [mb1] by stevedebi Mar 28, 2005 (2:27 pm)
Replying to: mb1 (Mar 28, 2005 2:12 pm) Hmmm, I think the run-time version of windows 1.0 was available around 1986. I know I got MS Excel with Windows 2.1 run time in 1988. So I imagine the first version os Windows was around 1985-1986... Windows 95 was introduced in 1995... Windows was earlier. Replies to this message: gagrice (Mar 28, 2005 3:17 pm) boysboysboys (Mar 29, 2005 9:29 am) gagrice (Mar 29, 2005 10:25 am) stevedebi (Mar 29, 2005 4:51 pm) and 1 more... manassascrow (Apr 01, 2005 5:12 am) and 19 more... kippy2 (May 16, 2005 10:29 am) and 1 more...
#17 of 752 Watch the topic drift! by pf_flyer HOST Mar 28, 2005 (2:54 pm)
I know it's easy to branch off into other trains of thought in the forums, but THINK CARS!!