Toyota Prius Software Problems - READ ONLY

752 messages, Last post on Sep 10, 2006 at 5:54 PM

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#61 of 752 Sigh by pf_flyer HOST Apr 04, 2005 (5:54 am)
I've had to take down the first post after I ask that this topic not turn into a personal beef because it was about making it personal. This topic is about problems with a vehicle and finding solutions to those problems. Let's stick to that please. PF Flyer Host News & Views, Wagons, & Hybrid Vehicles
#62 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [sganarelle] by stevedebi Apr 04, 2005 (12:02 pm)
Replying to: sganarelle (Apr 01, 2005 7:40 pm) "I don't know what state you live in but in California where I live there are rather stringent lemon laws. If I were you I would invoke that law and either get my money back or get a new Prius." The "stringent" laws to which you refer require that the vehicle have the same problem 3 times, or be out of service 30 days in the first year. You cannot get your money back after a single event. "It is almost certainly NOT a software problem because there are somewhere around 70,000 2004 and 2005 Prii on the road, all, presumably running the same software. If it were a software problem there would be massive numbers of cars failing. You almost certainly have a hardware problem in your control module and an intelligent dealer would have replaced it." It could be a hardware problem, but it is more likely a software problem. The reason I say this is that the dealer didn't replace hardware, he replaced software. If the problem was bad computer hardware, the problem would have re-created itself shortly. Since the cars in question did not have a re-occurrance of the issue after the software was reloaded, it was almost certainly a software bug. The reason the other Prius owners have not had this problem is simple. The combination of inputs to the computer unit that cause the software crash (rendering the Prius inoperative) is very rare. Thus the failures are very rare. But if all Prius vehicles have the same version of software (which they certainly should), and the dealers are just installing the same version back into the machine, then every Prius out there is subject to the same failures. But obviously it won't happen often. I don't own a Prius, but I doubt at this point that I would consider this a "deal breaker". But I am concerned that Toyota (and other manufacturers) may not have considered how to use owners as "field beta testers", which Microsoft has managed to to with their built-in "report software error" features in Windows. At least that way Microsoft gets information on what killed the application in question. BTW, my understanding is that there are over 30,000 known bugs in Windows, but they don't show up that often so they aren't fixed, or get fixed gradually as MS updates their versions. If you prefer to put it in a nicer fashion, I'm concerned that the manufacturers have not put in place some means of having their vehicles report back exactly what happened to kill their programs, including "dump" data so that the problems can be analyzed and fixed. RE: Recalls. The problem has not been reported to the NHTSB often enough to warrant an investigation. That is the reason the car has not been recalled. That, and the possibility that Toyota doesn't yet have a fix for the problem (and may not know exactly where the software "bug" resides). They cannot recall a problem until they fix it, and they can't fix it until they have data. And most importantly, they will not gather data unless they think they have to, so report any incidents to the NHTSB, for the good of the Prius and future software processes in automobiles.
#63 of 752 Re: Prius Software Problems by teleman Apr 08, 2005 (12:55 pm)
Just Googled "Prius software problems" and found this board. My six-month-old Prius died last night in the rain as I got on the Interstate. Same problem as others describe: engine suddenly died and all of the warning lights lit up, including the one that means "take to Toyota service immediately." I have to say that Toyota roadside assistance was extremely responsive. I just heard from the dealership. They acknowleged that the 04 has had a software problem, but claimed that they loaded updated software that should prevent this from happening again. How do I confirm this is the case and that new software has been developed by Toyota, or if they just reinstalled the old problematic software and lied to me? Does it do any good contacting Toyota about this, and should I get in touch with the NHTSB? Replies to this message: joebeatt (Apr 08, 2005 1:39 pm) falconone (Apr 08, 2005 3:03 pm) joebeatt (Apr 09, 2005 7:20 am)
#64 of 752 Re: Prius Software Problems [teleman] by joebeatt Apr 08, 2005 (1:39 pm)
Replying to: teleman (Apr 08, 2005 12:55 pm) I would put Toyota to the test and ask them if they did a recall for the 04 Prius to update the software and if not, why not. I would report to the NHTSB also. It can help to make cars safer and more reliable.
#65 of 752 Re: Prius Software Problems [teleman] by falconone Apr 08, 2005 (3:03 pm)
Replying to: teleman (Apr 08, 2005 12:55 pm) There is a recall or TSB (not sure of which) that addresses an issue with the gasket that lines the hood. Rain/water can enter here and cause problems . This MAY have been what caused your problem. Though I do think there CAN be software issues, then why aren't more cars effected? Isn't the software the same in all the cars? Replies to this message: joebeatt (Apr 09, 2005 7:20 am)
#66 of 752 Re: Prius Software Problems [falconone] by joebeatt Apr 09, 2005 (7:20 am)
Replying to: falconone (Apr 08, 2005 3:03 pm) It could still be a software issue. It is very difficult to predict when software will fail. A hidden bug might stall the vehicle, but only when a lot of different external conditions are met. Also the order in which these conditions appear might influence the process. These external conditions and the correct order to trigger the bug might happen only once in a million "car-years". It's a little bit like the aerospace industry. In 1994 a Boeing 737 suddenly turned over on its back and crashed straight into the ground for no reason. Everybody was puzzled what had happened. Finally it turned out that all 737s had a design flaw related to the rudder. The 737 came into service in 1967, and every day thousands of 737s are taking off and landing safely, so it is very weird that the flaw went unnoticed for all those years. Still it did. But finally, when all the external conditions were met, the accident happened.
#67 of 752 Screen Failure by eprupis Apr 09, 2005 (5:53 pm)
I have a 2004 with navigation--one year old and 16000 miles. Today my touch screen stopped working. The info screen dropped the mileage number, the mpg calculation, and the current mpg plus the outside temperature. The energy screen showed the diagram but no movement of energy. The audio and map screen did not function and the climate screen showed a message that the air conditioner was not connected. All the steering wheel controls functioned and the air conditioning responded to those controls as did the audio system. The green dash info stayed functioning and the car drove normally in all other respects. I did get the display screen to come on and hit the display off button and now the screen will not come on at all no matter what button I hit. I have seen software operating failures on this board but this is a new problem I don't recall reading about. Of course I'll bring it to my Toyota dealer ASAP, but they seem to be clueless abouty the Prius' unique features. Any ideas? Replies to this message: toyrunner (Apr 11, 2005 7:00 pm) ncarolina (Apr 27, 2005 10:09 pm) ncarolina (Apr 27, 2005 10:25 pm) falconone (Apr 28, 2005 3:28 am) tempusvn (Apr 28, 2005 4:52 am) stevedebi (Apr 28, 2005 11:05 am) and 1 more... ncarolina (Jun 04, 2005 6:23 am) and 1 more... templedancer (Jul 29, 2005 3:52 pm) and 3 more... mincha24 (Sep 10, 2006 5:54 pm)
#68 of 752 Re: Screen Failure [eprupis] by toyrunner Apr 11, 2005 (7:00 pm)
Replying to: eprupis (Apr 09, 2005 5:53 pm) There is a tsb about this problem take it to your dealer and they will order a new screen to correct this problem
#69 of 752 Re: MY2005 [jkraft3] by sunny9 Apr 12, 2005 (6:29 pm)
Replying to: jkraft3 (Mar 24, 2005 11:26 am) I don't believe I have yet seen a posted response to your query: "are there continuing software problems with model year 2005?" Did anyone respond back? I am also very interested in learning that answer, as well, particularly after reading no less less than 15 pages, at the National HighwayTransportation Safety Board site (NHTSB) devoted to complaints, defect investigations, and service bulletins, on the 2004 Prius. The problems cited did not appear to be trivial and let's face it, repair costs are only part of the dilemma the owner has to deal with when malfunction happens--and often at the most inopportune times. While it is impossible for a consumer to dodge all the problematic auto "bullets" out there, it is outrageous for a manufacturer to remain silent/not respond to consumer complaints on cars that have been out in the market for close to eight years now.