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Toyota Prius, Hybrid Cars
#36 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [sganarelle]
Mar 31, 2005 (9:57 pm)
Must have been the National Inquirer. A search of the on-line Wall Street Journal found no such article.
As a matter of fact it was Customer Service Index study by JD Powers. Look it up Toyota is not the best automaker if you are experiencing a problem. In fact they are below all the big 3 brands. Here is the 2003 chart. I am sure the one in the WSJ was the 2004 that does not show any improvement in the way Toyota handles customer problems. Which is the reason for this thread, Poor customer service.
#37 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [gagrice]
Apr 01, 2005 (1:10 am)
Now about the quality of the car, not the service of Toyota America:
Let's stick to JD Powers. Go to http://www.jdpower.com/cc/auto/auto.jsp# (new vehicle advisor).
Click: "Help me choose"
Click: "Compact" (then Next)
Click: "Mechanical Quality" and "Long Term Dependability" as being very important to you
Click: "Update List"
What do we see? Prius is number 1
Also please read:
Can we now stop bashing the Prius? As far as quality is concerned it is a very good car.
Also, let's go back to the topic of this thread "Toyota Prius Software Problems".
#38 of 752 Software problems vs. mechanical problems
Apr 01, 2005 (1:46 am)
I do not agree with the "single point of failure" theory of mechanical problems. I have been in a critical situation twice in my life, both because a mechanical failure made the car die on the freeway. I almost died in the second incident.
Furthermore, the "added complexity" argument is true, but the electrical motor can give you a backup in case of emergency. A few years ago 40 people burned to death in a tunnel in France. They couldn't get out, because their cars shut down because of oxygen starvation. A Prius could have gotten out in EV mode.
Of course, these kind of situations do not happen very often, so I wouldn't buy a Prius for that. On the other hand, so far, software problems do not seem to happen that often either (see the reliability statistics), so they do not stop me from buying a Prius.
#39 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [boysboysboys]
Apr 01, 2005 (6:12 am)
Had same problem yesterday, Thursday, 30 Mar 05. My 04 Prius quit working and had all the lights including the engine, vcs, caution red triangle, etc. I had no option except to go to the sholder on 234 just short of Route 28 near Manassas. Called dealer, Miller Toyota, Manassas who provided a tow service number. Within 30 minutes had the car in for service. As others, they "reprogrammed the engine ECU" and mentioned that this was a "recall" item. I don't think its a recall item because the service form states that it was maintenance. They did a recall on the "brake light switch" which should have been accomplished when we had the car in for the 20000 mile check. (Also, I never received a recall notice in the mail.) Like others I don't think Toyota has a fix for this.
FYI, they did pay for the tow truck and a one day rental car charge.
Will post again if more software problems develop.
#40 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [manassascrow]
Apr 01, 2005 (3:47 pm)
Will post again if more software problems develop.
Welcome to the Forum. Please do keep us posted if this happens again. There are those here that are in denial that the Prius has serious problems. If you report this to the NHTSA it will help get Toyota to research and fix their firmware.
#41 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [sganarelle]
Apr 01, 2005 (5:59 pm)
You have made two assumptions there, without any evidence that either is true;
1. that there is a software problem
2. that if there is, Toyota is not doing anything to fix it."
I'm not going to bother responding to most of your comments, since they prove my own statements about how critical software is when it controls more and more of the vehicle.
1. It is a software problem because the fix was not mechanical - the fix was to put the same software back into the Prius. Then the vehicle worked again. I don't know what triggered the problem, it may have been a combination of mechanical inputs or electric current levels or whatever. But it caused the software to stop working and the car died.
2. I didn't mean that Toyota wasn't fixing it; I said that if they are not getting data then it is unlikely they can find the error. If the dealers are just putting the same code back in the car and not downloading specific debug data, then Toyota has very little idea where the problem lies. Software engineers are always interested in fixing their code. But one has to know where the problem is before it can be fixed.
#42 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [manassascrow]
Apr 01, 2005 (8:40 pm)
I don't know what state you live in but in California where I live there are rather stringent lemon laws. If I were you I would invoke that law and either get my money back or get a new Prius.
It is almost certainly NOT a software problem because there are somewhere around 70,000 2004 and 2005 Prii on the road, all, presumably running the same software. If it were a software problem there would be massive numbers of cars failing. You almost certainly have a hardware problem in your control module and an intelligent dealer would have replaced it.
I personally know 6 other people with 2004 or 2005 Prii with a combined mileage approaching 100,000 miles. None have ever experienced a problem of any sort. I know someone with a first generation (2001) Prius approaching 120,000 miles with no problems of any kind except for tires (a known problem with the first generation Prius).
#43 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [sganarelle]
Apr 01, 2005 (11:49 pm)
You almost certainly have a hardware problem in your control module and an intelligent dealer would have replaced it.
There is the answer. The Toyota dealer service is rated way below average. You should read through the trouble encountered with the Prius II. I have not seen a vehicle that gets towed to the dealership more than a Prius. Try to find a new car that has a worse record here on Edmund's over the last year. You will see several people that were interested in the Prius including myself that would not buy one with all the troubles. They all seem to be control/computer related.
bonster, "Toyota Prius Owners: Problems & Solutions" #79, 14 Oct 2004 10:16 am
#44 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [stevedebi]
Apr 02, 2005 (2:51 am)
Among the 18 TSBs on 2004 Prii, this is the one we are talking about.
It is not listed on 2005 models (5 TSBs all for Oct.2004 and earlier).
Make : TOYOTA Model : PRIUS Year : 2004
Manufacturer : TOYOTA MOTOR NORTH AMERICA, INC.
Service Bulletin Num : 04009 Date of Bulletin: MAY 13, 2004
NHTSA Item Number: 10007672
Component: ELECTRICAL SYSTEM
SPECIAL SERVICE CAMPAIGN 40D TO REPROGRAM THE ELECTRONIC CONTROL UNITS