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752 messages, Last post on Sep 10, 2006 at 5:54 PM
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Replying to: boysboysboys (Mar 29, 2005 9:29 am) Welcome to the forum. My advice would be the same as others on this thread have urged. Report this to the NHTSA soon. They will compile the reports and force Toyota to do something. Toyota will not let out how serious the problem is. Toyota may be working on it. Everyone that has experienced this so far were told by the dealership that they had not heard of any such problem. It sounds pretty widespread, and a very dangerous bug in the Prius firmware. Just reseting the system is not going to fix the problem, only put it off till another time. If it does not get taken care of before the warranty is up you may be facing a big repair bill, or in the case of one owner body work. |
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Replying to: boysboysboys (Mar 29, 2005 9:29 am) So, any advice on what to say/how to deal with the dealership on getting this fixed?" That is the purpose of this thread. Contact the NHTSB and report the incident. When enough reports are accumlated, they will open an incident investigation. Once that occurs, it will hit the press, causing some publicity problems for Toyota. Unfortunately, I don't think Toyota put in any software error reporting capabilities (other than a simple error code, which doesn't help a programmer find the problem). Windows includes a feature that allows the user to send information back to Microsoft when something fails. Those reports provide exact data to the programmer, who then can work on the problem. Eventually, Toyota will probably have to insert code into the system that traps information about what the software is doing when it fails (or else they will program some special test cars with this information), in the hopes that they can find the problems. It would appear at this time that Toyota is merely reprogramming the Prius with the same (flawed) code that failed the first time.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Mar 29, 2005 4:51 pm) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 1:37 am) I don't see why a computer problem is necessarily worse than a mechanical failure. The failure of a fuel pump on the freeway or ball joint failure or even a tire blowout can lead to serious consequences. If you have been driving for more than a half century and never had a sudden failure then you are damned lucky. I can tell you lots of horror stories, such as the water pump on my 1964 Volvo going out at 70 mph leading to a rupture of the radiator. And I assure you there was not a line of computer software in that car. Regards, David (Whose 2004 Prius just passed 14,000 miles with 49 mpq and not a single software or hardware problem. Easily the best car I have ever owned. AND a bargain.)
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Replying to: sganarelle (Mar 30, 2005 8:40 pm) Good point. Now I think of it, I have been in a very dangerous situation because of failures only twice in my life (I drive since 1973). Both were caused by a fuel pump that quit in the middle of the freeway. One of the two incidents happened in a tunnel and I still remember the sight of those BIG lorries that were coming in om me at 60 mph. Both incidents happened in cars with no software at all. I have never had any problem with software so far. This is of course not to say that Toyota shouldn't do something about software problems, when they occur. They should! |
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Replying to: sganarelle (Mar 30, 2005 8:40 pm) Mechanical problems and failures are the result of material failures, which can happen. In general, it causes a single point failure. Keep in mind that the Prius is subject to these failures plus additional potential software problems. Software problems are the result of massive amounts of human generated software code. The use of software code in the Prius (having to use software more than a standard car to drive the dual propulsion system) requires a larger code, and more chances for error. Plus, that error shuts down the entire vehicle. A tire can be replaced with a spare, and a CV Joint is not expected to fail unless it is old or mechanically defective. A software bug that is never fixed will lurk around waiting to occur again. The real problem is that Toyota may not be doing anything about the source of the problem - the code itself.
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Replying to: stevedebi (Mar 31, 2005 2:04 pm) These parts can be replaced and the trouble is no longer an issue. With a software glitch that just gets reset you never know when it will come back to get you. I read in the Wall Street Journal yesterday that JD Powers rated Toyota below average on reliability. They were 28th out of 39 brands. What happened to them? Maybe too big too fast. |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Mar 31, 2005 2:04 pm) "Mechanical problems and failures are the result of material failures, which can happen. In general, it causes a single point failure." Really? Try telling that to the thousands of owners of Chrysler vehicles who had to be towed after transmission failures a few years ago, or the VW/Audi owners in the tens of thousands who experienced total vehicle failure because of ignition coil problems. Those cars were brand new. Those were DESIGN problems, not WEAR problems. The whole trend over the last 30 years has been to replace mechanical components with electronics because it is so much more reliable. The biggest increase in automotive reliability came when electronic fuel injection replaced carburetors. Remember them? Remember what happened when they got gummed up? "...Keep in mind that the Prius is subject to these failures plus additional potential software problems." The Prius probably has fewer mechanical components than any car on the road. Even the accelerator linkage is electronic. And the result is outstanding reliability. Check out Consumer Reports reliability ratings. Prius is at the very top. "The real problem is that Toyota may not be doing anything about the source of the problem - the code itself." You have made two assumptions there, without any evidence that either is true; 1. that there is a software problem 2. that if there is, Toyota is not doing anything to fix it. Regards, David (whose Prius never misses a beat)
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 31, 2005 5:35 pm) "I read in the Wall Street Journal yesterday that JD Powers rated Toyota below average on reliability. They were 28th out of 39 brands." Must have been the National Inquirer. A search of the on-line Wall Street Journal found no such article. David |
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Replying to: sganarelle (Mar 31, 2005 7:50 pm) "I read in the Wall Street Journal yesterday that JD Powers rated Toyota below average on reliability. They were 28th out of 39 brands." I went to the J.D. Power website. The headline for the latest Dependability ranking by Manufacturer is as follows: J.D. Power and Associates Reports: Toyota Motor Sales Captures Top Corporate Ranking in Vehicle Dependability While Toyota and Honda Continue to Dominate, the Big Three Domestics Make Important Strides in Long-Term Quality Improvement FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE: June 29, 2004
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