Toyota Prius Software Problems - READ ONLY

752 messages, Last post on Sep 10, 2006 at 5:54 PM

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#2 of 752 Just to add a little fuel to the fire... by stevedebi Mar 08, 2005 (5:18 pm)
It should be noted that the Prius, unlike the HCH, will not run without it's traction batteries. Once the batteries are below 20%, the car won't even start (software controlled, again). Replies to this message: arkainzeye (Oct 14, 2005 3:07 am)
#3 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [stevedebi] by featherhead Mar 11, 2005 (10:21 pm)
Replying to: stevedebi (Mar 08, 2005 9:21 am) Everything in your post seems to be on the money except, in my case, the car seemed to be capable of rebooting itself after an hour or so of blue-screen- of-death-like stupor. The state was much like that described by MD Sailor. My dealer certainly wasn't capable of modifying code. They did manage to coax an error message out of the computer related to low fuel. In their defence, the service department does offer a 15K mile service special (oil change, rotate tires, check brakes, maybe airfilter) for only $159. So how do we get action out of Toyota on this one. Replies to this message: stevedebi (Mar 14, 2005 12:54 pm)
#4 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [featherhead] by stevedebi Mar 14, 2005 (12:54 pm)
Replying to: featherhead (Mar 11, 2005 10:21 pm) " So how do we get action out of Toyota on this one." Don't know. The best thing to do is report it to the National Highway Transportation Safety Board. They keep a database of problems reported by owners . If enough problems come in, they will start an investigation. Unfortunately, as cars (not just the Prius) get more dependent upon computers, the manufacturors get more and more like Microsoft. It is very expensive to do comprehensive testing, so they get it to where it works the vast majority of the time, then release it to let the public do the final testing. I'm not saying Toyota doesn't test their software or that they release with known problems; but every software house has to evaluate known problems before a software release, and one of the criteria is "how often will this occur"? If the answer is "very seldom", they may deem it not worth fixing at this time, especially if they are up agaist the wall to release the software so the company can sell cars. We can only hope they are at least getting downloads from the problem cars that will tell them what to fix later... but I doubt it, mostly because it would mean putting "debug" code into final software releases.
#6 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [stevedebi] by joebeatt Mar 15, 2005 (11:28 pm)
Replying to: stevedebi (Mar 08, 2005 9:21 am) * I find this troubling because the basic HSD technology and programming is now about 7 years old. It should not be hitting failure points like this. * How long did it take Microsoft to get a stable version of Windows to the market? They released Windows 1.0 in 1985. The first version to be reasonably stable was Win2000. And even at this same moment I can't get the Windows time line on the Microsoft site to display properly and I'm using WinXP. It took Microsoft 15(!) years to get Windows more or less right. Buggy software IS a problem and nobody makes software that is 100% error-free. I think we will have to live with it. Without software modern cars, let alone the Prius, wouldn't exist. What we could maybe do is give Toyota as much feedback as possible. I hope they have a program to collect information on these kind of problems. By the way, if the software fails in your Prius you can still pull over to the roadside. The basic steering is still mechanical. I don't want to think about the effect of software glitches in a Boeing 777 or an Airbus 340. Replies to this message: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 12:56 am) joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:14 am) gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 1:37 am) and 28 more... mb1 (Mar 28, 2005 2:12 pm) stevedebi (Mar 28, 2005 2:27 pm) gagrice (Mar 28, 2005 3:17 pm) and 26 more... joebeatt (Mar 29, 2005 7:52 am)
#7 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [joebeatt] by gagrice Mar 16, 2005 (12:56 am)
Replying to: joebeatt (Mar 15, 2005 11:28 pm) How long did it take Microsoft to get a stable version of Windows to the market? Your analogy is not valid. Windows software is bombarded with software from outside vendors and hackers trying to make it fail. The Prius software is totally protected from outside influences and still it fails. If you are driving 70 mph down the Interstate and the car shuts off in heavy traffic you could cause an accident. If your computer gets the blue screen of death you just reboot and keep on surfin'. In the Prius you have to wait for a tow truck to come get you. If you are lucky enough to avoid an accident. What other cars beside the hybrids are plagued with these software glitches that cause the car to quit going down the highway? Replies to this message: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:14 am) gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 1:37 am) joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am) and 13 more... sganarelle (Mar 30, 2005 8:40 pm) and 13 more...
#8 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [gagrice] by joebeatt Mar 16, 2005 (1:14 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 12:56 am) My analogy is valid. The point I am making is that it is impossible to make software that is 100% bugfree. Windows failed all by itself for years, it didn't need hackers. My computer was not connected to the internet from 1985 to 1998 and still Windows failed 10 times a day. You say: "Windows is bombarded with software from outside vendors". Well, my computer wasn't bombarded because I would only run a few Microsoft applications on it. Furthermore the Prius computers also have to talk to embedded microprocessors in all kind of components. I agree that a Prius software problem can be more dangerous than a Windows problem, although that depends on what you use your Windows for. However that has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make and that is that 100% bug free software is an illusion and that you will always need time to reach a more or less stable version. Finally you ask: "What other cars beside the hybrids are plagued with these software glitches that cause the car to quit going down the highway?" Well, I had a Mercedes E320 that I had to bring in for a software patch. They had noticed that in some cases the BAS (brake assistant) would just fully lock the brakes for no reason. A few Mercedeses came to a grinding halt on the Autobahn. As far as I know it didn't cause any accidents, but it could have. I have also heard of BMWs having serious software problems. Replies to this message: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 1:37 am) joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am) md_sailor (Mar 16, 2005 7:02 am) and 12 more... sganarelle (Mar 30, 2005 8:40 pm) joebeatt (Mar 31, 2005 12:58 am) stevedebi (Mar 31, 2005 2:04 pm) and 10 more... gagrice (Mar 31, 2005 8:13 pm)
#9 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [joebeatt] by gagrice Mar 16, 2005 (1:37 am)
Replying to: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:14 am) A few Mercedeses came to a grinding halt on the Autobahn. That is a real problem. I like computers, I question if they belong in our cars. Failures happen but I have never owned a car that just failed. Even my worst cars since my first 1947 Pontiac always gave warning of impending problems. Replies to this message: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am) md_sailor (Mar 16, 2005 7:02 am) joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 8:28 am) stevedebi (Mar 16, 2005 1:58 pm) and 10 more... sganarelle (Mar 30, 2005 8:40 pm) joebeatt (Mar 31, 2005 12:58 am) stevedebi (Mar 31, 2005 2:04 pm) gagrice (Mar 31, 2005 5:35 pm) and 6 more... sganarelle (Mar 31, 2005 7:44 pm) and 2 more... gagrice (Mar 31, 2005 8:13 pm)
#10 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [gagrice] by joebeatt Mar 16, 2005 (1:48 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 1:37 am) Hi gagrice. I see your point, but the thing is that computers make our cars what they are today. I find it amazing how the car industry has made progress over the last 30 years. Last month a drove a car my father had 30 years ago and you can't imagine the difference it makes. Starting the engine, the steering, the brakes, the airco, you name it, it's all much smoother nowadays than it was before. To a large extent this is due to the fact that these things are now computer controlled. Of course the added complexity is a problem, but for me the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. Furthermore I think that the cases where computers in cars saved lives (ABS, ESP, quicker response of engines to get out of a dangerous situation) far outweigh the cases where computers killed people because of software glitches. Replies to this message: md_sailor (Mar 16, 2005 7:02 am) joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 8:28 am) stevedebi (Mar 16, 2005 1:58 pm) raj786 (May 03, 2005 10:58 am) and 7 more... pdahlin (Sep 07, 2006 6:50 pm) and 1 more...
#11 of 752 Re: Toyota Prius Software Problems [joebeatt] by md_sailor Mar 16, 2005 (7:02 am)
Replying to: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 1:48 am) Toyota is not investigating these failures properly, no one from Toyota with any technical knowledge about the computers has contacted me or reviewed the case. Instead, they had a person call me to say that they would not answer my detailed technical questions about the failure because this would involve "proprietary" information. The dealers just report that the car stopped, no further details are sent back to Toyota. The same software is just reloaded to replace the scrambled code in the Engine Control Module (ECM) and the customer is sent on the way. This is obviously In System Programmable (ISP) code, and it is getting corrupted when the computer fails. Not a good design and one that needs investigation. A conscientious company would work on the problem instead of ignoring it. I sent a two page FAX to Toyota Customer Service, FAX: 310-468-7814 Does anyone have the direct contact info. for the Nat. Highway Safety Institute? Replies to this message: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 8:28 am) stevedebi (Mar 16, 2005 1:58 pm) raj786 (May 03, 2005 10:58 am) refields (May 16, 2005 11:23 am) and 6 more... pdahlin (Sep 07, 2006 6:50 pm) midnightcowboy (Sep 08, 2006 5:42 am)