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Hybrid Vehicles Toyota Prius Toyota Prius Maintenance & Repair Toyota Prius Software Problems 
752 messages, Last post on Sep 10, 2006 at 6:54 PM
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This is the place to discuss any software errors encountered by Prius owners. I'm starting this discussion because I think it is important, and should be discussed separately from the generic "Prius Problems & Solutions" discussion. The Prius uses computers to a degree not seen before in a production vehicle. Pardon the cross post, but to start out the discussion, I wish to repeat part of post 134 from the "Problems and Solutions": md_sailor, "Toyota Prius Owners: Problems & Solutions" #134, 22 Feb 2005 11:15 am I was driving home last week in my 04 Prius, watching the mpg reading creep up to 48.0, when I stopped at a stop sign. Immediately after starting up, my dashboard lit up with multiple failure warnings, including "VSC", the red triangle around an exclamation point, a yellow circle with exclamation point, etc. The car continued forward, but just on battery power. Since I was only 2 miles from home I decided to continue, and made it into my driveway by coasting the last 1/2 mile. The car then stopped and would not move forward. I turned it off and read some of the manual. After a few minutes, I pressed the "ON" button and this time the gas engine started, although the mass of warning lights stayed on. I got the car into the garage, where I left it running to charge the battery (garage door open of course). While I called Toyota, the car stopped. After having it towed on a flatbed to Toyota the next day, the car was fixed by reprogramming the ECM (engine control module). So far there is no explanation from Toyota for the failure, I'm trying to work my way up to someone who actually knows something about the computers. My confidence in this car, and Toyota, was badly shaken by this incident. --------------------------- The problem here is that there was a software error in the Prius. What most people do not realize is that it probably wasn't fixed by the dealer. What happened: The Prius in question hit a point in the software code that caused the whole program to crash. How it was overcome: The Toyota dealer installed the same program back into the car. There is no way that Toyota made a program modification and then put it back into the car. This means that the Prius will fail again if those exact circumstance occur again. It also means that every Prius with that same software version may fail in the same fashion There are only a couple of possibilities here: 1. Toyota already had a fix for the problem, and hadn't installed it in all cars. Possible, but unlikely. 2. Toyota simply put the old code back into the vehicle and hoped for the best. Probable. Hopefully, Toyota at least had the smarts to download the entire memory contents (or enough code to troubleshoot the problem). A simple error code is not usually enough to determine why the code failed, only where it failed. I find this troubling because the basic HSD technology and programming is now about 7 years old. It should not be hitting failure points like this. |
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It should be noted that the Prius, unlike the HCH, will not run without it's traction batteries. Once the batteries are below 20%, the car won't even start (software controlled, again).
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Replying to: stevedebi (Mar 08, 2005 10:21 am) So how do we get action out of Toyota on this one.
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Replying to: featherhead (Mar 11, 2005 11:21 pm) Don't know. The best thing to do is report it to the National Highway Transportation Safety Board. They keep a database of problems reported by owners . If enough problems come in, they will start an investigation. Unfortunately, as cars (not just the Prius) get more dependent upon computers, the manufacturors get more and more like Microsoft. It is very expensive to do comprehensive testing, so they get it to where it works the vast majority of the time, then release it to let the public do the final testing. I'm not saying Toyota doesn't test their software or that they release with known problems; but every software house has to evaluate known problems before a software release, and one of the criteria is "how often will this occur"? If the answer is "very seldom", they may deem it not worth fixing at this time, especially if they are up agaist the wall to release the software so the company can sell cars. We can only hope they are at least getting downloads from the problem cars that will tell them what to fix later... but I doubt it, mostly because it would mean putting "debug" code into final software releases. |
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Replying to: stevedebi (Mar 08, 2005 10:21 am) How long did it take Microsoft to get a stable version of Windows to the market? They released Windows 1.0 in 1985. The first version to be reasonably stable was Win2000. And even at this same moment I can't get the Windows time line on the Microsoft site to display properly and I'm using WinXP. It took Microsoft 15(!) years to get Windows more or less right. Buggy software IS a problem and nobody makes software that is 100% error-free. I think we will have to live with it. Without software modern cars, let alone the Prius, wouldn't exist. What we could maybe do is give Toyota as much feedback as possible. I hope they have a program to collect information on these kind of problems. By the way, if the software fails in your Prius you can still pull over to the roadside. The basic steering is still mechanical. I don't want to think about the effect of software glitches in a Boeing 777 or an Airbus 340.
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Replying to: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 12:28 am) Your analogy is not valid. Windows software is bombarded with software from outside vendors and hackers trying to make it fail. The Prius software is totally protected from outside influences and still it fails. If you are driving 70 mph down the Interstate and the car shuts off in heavy traffic you could cause an accident. If your computer gets the blue screen of death you just reboot and keep on surfin'. In the Prius you have to wait for a tow truck to come get you. If you are lucky enough to avoid an accident. What other cars beside the hybrids are plagued with these software glitches that cause the car to quit going down the highway?
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 1:56 am) You say: "Windows is bombarded with software from outside vendors". Well, my computer wasn't bombarded because I would only run a few Microsoft applications on it. Furthermore the Prius computers also have to talk to embedded microprocessors in all kind of components. I agree that a Prius software problem can be more dangerous than a Windows problem, although that depends on what you use your Windows for. However that has nothing to do with the point I am trying to make and that is that 100% bug free software is an illusion and that you will always need time to reach a more or less stable version. Finally you ask: "What other cars beside the hybrids are plagued with these software glitches that cause the car to quit going down the highway?" Well, I had a Mercedes E320 that I had to bring in for a software patch. They had noticed that in some cases the BAS (brake assistant) would just fully lock the brakes for no reason. A few Mercedeses came to a grinding halt on the Autobahn. As far as I know it didn't cause any accidents, but it could have. I have also heard of BMWs having serious software problems.
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Replying to: joebeatt (Mar 16, 2005 2:14 am) That is a real problem. I like computers, I question if they belong in our cars. Failures happen but I have never owned a car that just failed. Even my worst cars since my first 1947 Pontiac always gave warning of impending problems.
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Replying to: gagrice (Mar 16, 2005 2:37 am) Of course the added complexity is a problem, but for me the advantages far outweigh the disadvantages. Furthermore I think that the cases where computers in cars saved lives (ABS, ESP, quicker response of engines to get out of a dangerous situation) far outweigh the cases where computers killed people because of software glitches.
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