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Automotive Science or Voodoo?

117 messages,  Last post on Nov 19, 2012 at 8:45 AM

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What is this discussion about? Car Safety, Exterior, Fuel System, Performance Mods, Auto Body, Engine, Fuel System, Oil, Paint, Transmission, Alternative Fuels, Diesel, Hybrid Cars, Fuel Efficiency (MPG), Car Warranties, Coupe, Convertible, Hatchback, Truck, Sedan, Wagon, SUV, Van

Messages Page 11 of 12

#98 of 117 acetone in fuel by sailormon

Sep 21, 2005 (5:53 am)

I just happened on this site and so am throwing this out. As soon as it is posted I plan to duck out of the way of incomming jibes. Go to pureEnergySystems.com and check out artical on acetone in fuel. I did a short term in the last week or so trial with no real difinitive results, but will throw them out there anyhow. My little car which always gets 26 mixed driving did get 30 mpg for the first time. I will run long term to check this out further. My diesel ford 250 seemed to run nice and I was at 450 miles on a tank before I put fuel in it, only a half a tank as it is being sold in the morning. The only significant thing here is, I need to fill up when traveling before 400 miles on the highway and this tank was stop and go and mixed. Interesting enough to follow a little further with this from my view. Br

#99 of 117 Re: acetone in fuel [sailormon] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Sep 21, 2005 (3:19 pm)

Replying to: sailormon (Sep 21, 2005 5:53 am)
You know though, an article written by a chemist telling you that acetone dissolves the compounds of which fuel injection seals and O-rings are made isn't a "jibe" exactly-- it's a fact that one should give serious consideration.
 
PureEnergySystems also says this, by the way:
 
"CAUTION: Acetone degrades cheaper plastics. While we would expect that all components used in all automobiles would be of a more durable nature, this may not necessarily be the case."
 
One screw up in your fuel injection system and all the gas "savings" are out the window, BIG TIME.

#100 of 117 Re: acetone in fuel [Mr_Shiftright] by sailormon

Sep 21, 2005 (7:25 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Sep 21, 2005 3:19 pm)
That thought came to me also considering some of the shody shorcuts that seem so prevalent in manufacturing today. However I did read that some of the additves that are commonly used in fact contain acetone. I am not advocating their use either, just searching for a way around big industry price gouging on fuel, but that is an issue for another forum. Perhaps we should go to mopeds and park our suvs. BR

#101 of 117 Re: acetone in fuel [sailormon] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Sep 21, 2005 (8:08 pm)

Replying to: sailormon (Sep 21, 2005 7:25 pm)
You know, if acetone were some sort of trouble-free miracle, it'd be in all the pumps in all the gas stations in all the world, but it isn't, because it isn't. People will tout "conspiracy theories" time and time again, but in fact it is totally impossible to suppress any product that is so readily available to everyone as acetone is.
 
If it were all true, a gas station could easily add it to their underground tanks and totally annihilate every other gas station within a five mile radius.
 
Why don't they? Obviously, fear of product liability.

#102 of 117 OBD-II Interface and SW to improve Engine Fuel Economy by user777

Sep 26, 2005 (10:02 am)

A general question,
Does anyone know of a company that designs software for an OBD-II interface that apply's a little expert knowlege and suggests to the user what could be the cause of poor / off-design fuel economy? Is it even practical?
 
It seems many posters in the past few months are complaining of poor fuel economy (no surprise with the cost of fuel right)?
 
While the OBD-II interface can be used to read and reset codes and look at real-time parameters for different devices that are monitored, it would seem there would be a market to design software that would help localize the root cause of poor engine fuel economy / performance. I realize they can help locate causes of poor emissions, but what about the fuel economy portion of the equation?

#103 of 117 Re: OBD-II Interface and SW to improve Engine Fuel Economy [user777] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Sep 26, 2005 (2:50 pm)

Replying to: user777 (Sep 26, 2005 10:02 am)
This doesn't sound like the right approach to me....ultimately, ANY computer read out is only as good as the person reading it, and I don't think you can actually nail down anything certain using software like that....I would think it would be better to do a real world dyno pull or two and read out the tailpipe. Then you have some "real" numbers.

#104 of 117 Re: OBD-II Interface and SW to improve Engine Fuel Economy [Mr_Shiftright] by user777

Sep 26, 2005 (6:01 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Sep 26, 2005 2:50 pm)
i've got nothing against a dyno-pull (?) but when you start talking about read-out the tailpipe, i'm thinking you're thinking emissions... but you might be thinking combustion efficiency.
 
i was merely wondering if SW could categorize a more narrow acceptability band on transmitters which might be causing the unit to run excessively rich, or on a sub-optimal schedule.
 
we might be talking the same thing, i don't know.

#105 of 117 Re: OBD-II Interface and SW to improve Engine Fuel Economy [user777] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Sep 26, 2005 (6:07 pm)

Replying to: user777 (Sep 26, 2005 6:01 pm)
I guess I meant that what could you learn that wouldn't already be throwing a code at you with the normal diagnostic scanning?
 
If you are experiencing very poor fuel mileage, below EPA, but no codes are being thrown, then I think maybe you need to be looking at say a conspicuous drop in horsepower...where the engine has lost power/efficiency but not due to a defect that the computer will recognize.
 
For instance, (and I don't know the answer to this, so....) how would a dyno react if you let 20 lbs of air out of the tires?
 
Or throwing it another way, could software tell you that your alignment is way out and that you are literally dragging your tires along? Probably not.

#106 of 117 Re: OBD-II Interface and SW to improve Engine Fuel Economy [Mr_Shiftright] by user777

Sep 26, 2005 (6:14 pm)

Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (Sep 26, 2005 6:07 pm)
hmmm. let me try this: in my domain, there are mathematical models for unit operation, and the transducers that monitor and thus also control unit operation have an expected range of values at various operation points. we know for example by a particular transducer reading low, that there is a problem with unit efficiency, and we can validate the sensor, based on the other sensor readings.
 
without such a model, how do you know if a sensor is drifting, or out of calibration or "clogged"? it might not be tossing a diagnostic code, and yet it's not operating properly either. therefore, the engine may be running to a sub-optimal condition.
 
for example the MAF or O2 sensors or the EGR valve.

#107 of 117 Re: OBD-II Interface and SW to improve Engine Fuel Economy [user777] by Mr_Shiftright HOST

Sep 26, 2005 (6:17 pm)

Replying to: user777 (Sep 26, 2005 6:14 pm)
But could something that subtle affect fuel mileage so noticeably? I mean, are these automotive sensors working so sensitively as that?

Messages Page 11 of 12

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