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Maintenance & Repair Automotive Science or Voodoo?
113 messages, Last post on Oct 11, 2006 at 7:17 AM
You are in the Maintenance & Repair Forum. Your Host is mr_shiftright
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I got a bottle of this Blue Sky stuff and now we'll see if it works. I'll be filling up the tank and driving 55 MPH. Turns out ya don't have to use the whole bottle just a few ounces. Wish me luck and I'll keep ya posted. 
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Replying to: dialm4speed (May 11, 2005 12:27 am) If you change gas stations or where you fill up you can skew the results. Also a 1 mpg gain or loss would be statistically plausible even if you did nothing different and used no additive.
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Replying to: Mr_Shiftright (May 11, 2005 9:42 am) Could be my imagination but the engine already feels smoother after one day! 
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Replying to: dialm4speed (May 11, 2005 10:05 pm) 20 more miles on a tank won't prove anything---the wind could cause that on any given day. Unless you record gas mileage over many fill ups there is really no evidence here. |
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Dear All What I know about diesel engines you can write on the back of a cigarette packet, however I'm a business man who has told about a potential opportunity involving a new invention. I wonder if I could trouble anyone who would care to reply for their advice concerning the following questions. All answers gratefully received. Here is some basic background information 2 engineers one an electronics expert and the other a petrol chemical engineer claims to have developed a product which when fitted to any haulage truck will guarantee a minimum of 20% diesel fuel consumption as well as reduced emissions. So far they claim to have it installed on 100 trucks which have provided them with the data that supports their claims. They are now seeking to market the product commercially and have appointed a small marketing company which knows nothing about diesel engines. the cost of the product is anticipated to be in the order of $20,000. They went to a major truck manufacturer who they claim was very interested in the product but required a two year validation period. They were not prepared to wait and are now considering road hauliers. I need to know the following 1. If their claims are true would 20% decrease in fuel consumption be of major interest to road hauliers with a $20,000 price tag? 2. What technical questions should I ask them to validate their claims ? 3. I am considering entering into a franchise or direct sales agreement with them but I need to make sure that I'm not being sold down the river and given the price that there is a market for their product. Thanks in advance for your replies Epicentre
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Replying to: epicentre (Jun 06, 2005 4:07 am) 1. What is the mechanism for which fuel economy increases? If it is a simple computer chip swap, the markup would be about 20-fold (personal trucks sell chip setups for $1-2K) and the results are typically haphazard. If it is an actual device, tell them you will need to see the schematic and US patent #. 2. How long is the product guaranteed and who will honor the guarantee after 3 years (i.e. are the owners moving to the Virgin Islands at the end of year 1)? A semi truck probably gets about 5 mpg with a 20 % gain resulting in 6 mpg. To pay off an initial investment of 20 K, a minimum of about 250,000 miles would have to be driven with gas in the $2.50 / gallon range. Is the device transferable to another engine? What is the expected life of the device? Thus, there is the potential for money savings, however, the 20 % gain must be guaranteed for at least 250,000 miles and preferably indefinitely with no additional maintenance costs. Remember that a diesel engine can last about 300,000 to 500,000 miles if taken care of, significantly longer than a gas engine, 3. What is the cost of the part? The 100 vehicles that have been fitted would have cost possibly over $1,000,000 already and $2,000,000 if they are selling at cost. How long have the vehicles been tested (surely over 250,000 miles if they expect to get $20 K) and who paid for the testing? 4. The description about two engineers also makes me leary. The "electronics expert" makes me think this is a computer chip based device, which makes $20 K absurdly expensive. I am not aware of any chemical engineers that know a hoot about diesel engines. Mechanical engineers would be responsible for designing machined parts to be fitted to an engine.
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Replying to: john500 (Jun 06, 2005 4:47 am) |
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Personally I have never seen any device plugged into or poured into any vehicle at any time that resulted in a reliable and consistent 20% increase in fuel mileage. Such a substantial increase would, IMO, require significant mechanical modification. However, let's presume that there IS this chip and that it DOES give a 20% increase. Now the question I would ask as a fleet manager is WHAT does this chip do to get that mileage? Am I leaning out this engine dangerously? Am I screwing around with something that shouldn't be screwed around with? From my experience, reliability is a far more significant factor with fleets than a couple MPG. They can usually pass the fuel costs on to the consumer (and they do, which is why your apples cost more than two years ago), but if the apples don't ever get there, they "eat" them so to speak. So I agree whoeheartedly with the others---if the inventors will not fully disclose to you the engineering principles behind this device, I wouldn't touch it. And the price is VERY suspicious. It sounds like a grab and run scheme based on that alone. A fleet could fit all kinds of aero devices, better lubricants and filters and higher maintenance to get better MPG, for less money per truck than that. |
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Every few years someone comes out with one of these "inventions" and it's usually timed with gas price increases. Voodoo...pure and simple! |
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