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2391 messages,  Last post on Nov 30, 2005 at 7:50 AM

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What is this discussion about? Coupe, Sedan, SUV


Karl Brauer is the Editor in Chief of Edmunds.com, which means he finds himself in a different vehicle almost every day of the week. If you want a daily road test review regarding the latest cars and trucks to hit the market, along with commentary on everything from auto industry happenings to L.A. drivers to his latest close encounter with Johnny Law, this is the place to be.
 

Messages Page 62 of 239

#611 of 2391 Re: Karl [editor_karl] by kevm14

May 23, 2005 (1:02 pm)

Replying to: editor_karl (May 21, 2005 1:52 pm)
since I do all the instrumented testing for Edmunds
 
Ah. Then I have a question. I read the 300C SRT-8 road test follow-up and noticed that you got 65.2mph through the slalom. I knew this was an awesome figure, as lots of cars can pull lateral Gs on a skidpad but slalom poorly. So I looked up some numbers for sporty cars and discovered that this slalom speed is within 1.4mph of an M3!!! And it was better in 60-0 braking. It even had a 1/4 mile trap speed within 0.3mph (which is useful for comparing power to weight ratios). I just thought that was amazing, from a vehicle much, much larger, heavier, bigger inside, and 10 grand less. Any comments?

#612 of 2391 Re: Karl [kevm14] by blueguydotcom

May 23, 2005 (3:00 pm)

Replying to: kevm14 (May 23, 2005 12:52 pm)
I'm a little confused. Is there some unreported dangerous handling characteristic of the G35? Or would any car do that over that exact road?
 
Many reviews do mention the G35 gets a little skittish in handling at times. I know from personal experience with my 330i on the same road I cannot duplicate the odd sensation of the backend lifting off the ground. Drive the two cars back to back and there is a difference in how connected they are to the road. Not saying better, just different.
 
I still wish I liked the G35 enough to buy one.

#613 of 2391 Re: Karl [kevm14] by explorerx4

May 23, 2005 (6:04 pm)

Replying to: kevm14 (May 23, 2005 1:02 pm)
my neighbor has an '02 m3. he has let me drive it a few times. lucky me! the most obvious difference to the srt-8 would be a manual vs. automatic transmission. i know there is a pretty easy software upgrade to the m3 that helps a lot. this is because he made me drive it first after we did the reflash! if i had to sit in the back seat, i would pick the 300.

#614 of 2391 Re: Test-Driving [steve_] by editor_karl

May 23, 2005 (8:17 pm)

Replying to: steve_ (May 22, 2005 8:07 am)
Hey Karl, is there a small/midsize (non-luxury) SUV Comparison Test scheduled any time soon? The recent Full Size Sedan test was nicely timed to coincide with the drop in SUV sales.
 
The last one we did along these lines was a crossover comparison test, but it was back in fall 2003:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=100318
 
And we did a serious mid-size SUV comparison test back in 2002:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=53479
 
There hasn't been a great deal of activity in these segments since these tests, though the Pathfinder, Durango and 4Runner are all new since then. And there have been plenty of minor upgrades (Highlander now has three seats and hybrid drivetrain, the Pilot has had minor improvements, such as the 2nd seat adjustments, the Ford Explorer is due for a major revision next year -- new styling and more powerful engine).
 
We'll probably wait for the revised Explorer (due in the Fall) and then re-visit the midsize SUV segment again. Not sure when we'll hit crossovers again.

#615 of 2391 Re: Karl [blueguydotcom] by editor_karl

May 23, 2005 (8:34 pm)

Replying to: blueguydotcom (May 23, 2005 3:00 pm)
I'm a little confused. Is there some unreported dangerous handling characteristic of the G35? Or would any car do that over that exact road?
 
Here's a direct quote from our 2002 Entry-Level Luxury Sport Sedan Test:
http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=73569/pageId=29721
The G's stability control system, dubbed VDC (Vehicle Dynamic Control) goes about its business in a unobtrusive fashion. Shut off the system, however, and the rear end can get loose when pressing hard.
 
That's actually a kind translation of what I said after driving the G35 through the slalom. Basically, it scarred the bejesus out of me once I turned off VDC because it could spin suddenly, with little-to-no warning. Up until that point I had liked the car, just like every other mainstream publication, but after that experience I decided it was too skittish at the limit. Curiously, I read a comparison test in Car & Driver a few weeks later, and they said almost the exact same thing. I can't remember the direct quote, but it was something like, "During twisty road driving we tried disabling the VDC, quickly learned about the car's rotational inertia behavior, and never turned the VDC off again!"
 
For most drivers, most of the time, they'll probably never even know about this trait (how many people ever actually turn off stability control and drive aggressively?). For me, it was enough to keep the 3 Series well out in front in terms of "ultimate sport sedan."

#616 of 2391 Re: Karl [kevm14] by editor_karl

May 23, 2005 (8:43 pm)

Replying to: kevm14 (May 23, 2005 1:02 pm)
I just thought that was amazing, from a vehicle much, much larger, heavier, bigger inside, and 10 grand less. Any comments?
 
The SRT-8 is an amazing vehicle. The single biggest surprise is how well it handles, as the car's appearance, curb weight and ride quality suggest a cumbersome behavior on twisty roads. Not true! When I took it on my favorite driving route the car floored me with its near BMW-like handling demeanor.
 
For the record, small differences in slalom speed represent large differences in actual handling behavior. For instance, even an SUV might get as high as 62 or 63 mph, where a full-on sports sedan, like the new 3 Series, would probably score around 68. It's only 5 mph, but it represents a wide gulf in performance regarding the average speed through a 600-foot slalom.
 
That said, the SRT-8 is a hell of a car, and for anyone wanting near 3 Series/5 Series driving dynamics for less money (and with far more interior space) the Chrysler represents a great buy.

#617 of 2391 SRT-8 for less money? by blueguydotcom

May 24, 2005 (12:19 am)

That said, the SRT-8 is a hell of a car, and for anyone wanting near 3 Series/5 Series driving dynamics for less money (and with far more interior space) the Chrysler represents a great buy.
 
The 300C SRT-8 with moonroof and gas guzzler tax has an MSRP of 43.5k!
 
An e90 330i with sport, leather (xenons, moon are standard), and metallic paint is $40,500. You can order it ED to save 4-5k; BMWCCA membership is another $500 off. Regardless, even at sticker it's $3000 cheaper than a SRT-8. And it gets 30 mpg on the freeway (easily). Better mileage and 4 years free maintenance too.
 
Where's the cheaper part come into this?

#618 of 2391 Re: Karl [editor_karl] by kevm14

May 24, 2005 (4:47 am)

Replying to: editor_karl (May 23, 2005 8:43 pm)
For the record, small differences in slalom speed represent large differences in actual handling behavior. For instance, even an SUV might get as high as 62 or 63 mph, where a full-on sports sedan, like the new 3 Series, would probably score around 68. It's only 5 mph, but it represents a wide gulf in performance regarding the average speed through a 600-foot slalom.
 
I agree that small differences translate into noticable differences on the road, but I don't agree that an SUV is going to be in the 60s. According to some stats I dug out, you managed 62.6 out of a 2001 Z06! I have driven a 2001 Z06 - it's a fine handling machine. Even a 2002 WRX managed 64.5. To refresh others, these are being compared to the SRT-8's 65.2mph. Typically big, heavy cars may be capable of high lateral acceleration, but show their weight in the slalom. That's why I'm making a big deal out of this, because the car appears to be slaloming with much smaller, lighter, more dedicated sports cars.
Were there slalom course differences in years past?

#619 of 2391 Ahem by 210delray

May 24, 2005 (6:24 am)

A funny thing happened on the way to buying a G35...on a test drive of the 6 speed the back of the car lifted off the ground on a corner while cresting a hill at 80 mph. My stomach came out of my throat and my search continued for a car in the class.
 
Call me an old fart or a stick-in-the-mud, but driving a car on a what I assume is a 2-lane road at 80 mph on curve/hillcrest is irresponsible if not reckless. Plus this is a test drive, so you're not even familiar yet with the car.
 
How would you have felt if you had lost control and killed someone in an oncomng car?

#620 of 2391 Re: Ahem [210delray] by kyfdx HOST

May 24, 2005 (7:31 am)

Replying to: 210delray (May 24, 2005 6:24 am)
Okay.. you asked for it..
 
Old fart

Messages Page 62 of 239

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