Karl's Daily Log Book - READ ONLY

2391 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2005 at 6:50 AM

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What is this discussion about? Coupe, Sedan, SUV

Karl Brauer is the Editor in Chief of Edmunds.com, which means he finds himself in a different vehicle almost every day of the week. If you want a daily road test review regarding the latest cars and trucks to hit the market, along with commentary on everything from auto industry happenings to L.A. drivers to his latest close encounter with Johnny Law, this is the place to be.

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#2369 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [navigator89] by phillyone Oct 31, 2005 (2:50 pm)
Replying to: navigator89 (Oct 31, 2005 10:37 am) Actually the G6 coupe is already out, as is the DTS. I have seen both on the road. The STS-V comes out this month, and the Lucerne next month.
#2370 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [editor_karl] by redmaxx Oct 31, 2005 (3:10 pm)
Replying to: editor_karl (Oct 31, 2005 7:08 am) The Equinox/Torrent use the same electric steering as the Malibu, G6 and Cobalt. However, there is room for tuning them differently, so maybe that is what you felt.
#2371 of 2391 by savetheland Oct 31, 2005 (4:10 pm)
I drove both G6 coupe and G6 GTP. Both have good steering feel (I swear that it is not an electric one). Three-spoke steering wheel is very good, unlike Malibu’s ugly steering wheel, and engine sound is kinda refined and smooth (have no idea what engine was, but it had enough power). But I did not drive on freeway so don’t know how good it is on freeway. Steering is good but not as good as on German cars (from what G6 was originally derived). The new Impala has unrefined engine sound on base model and thin 80-s style steering wheel. Interior is pretty good though. Replies to this message: hammen2 (Oct 31, 2005 6:40 pm)
#2372 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [phillyone] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (6:37 pm)
Replying to: phillyone (Oct 31, 2005 2:49 pm) I dont really understand how you could like the Impala but not the GXP. Arent they basically the same V8 powered front drivers on ancient platforms with nothing but sheetmetal to differentiate them? Umm... no. The GXP tries to be a performance car, as best a FWD vehicle can be. It has a staggered tire setup (larger on the front than the rear), PBR brakes, Bilstein shocks, et. al. The ride and handling is completely different between the two cars. The Impala is more of a boulevard/highway cruiser with power. And, dont forget that 80+% of that platform was new for the '04 Grand Prix. What percentage of the platform was all-new for the Impala, I don't know, but the Impala's platform code is now GMX211 (was MS2000/GMX210 - derived from the 1988 GM10 W-body, but virtually all parts have changed over the years). Do Honda and Toyota specify what percentage of their platforms are all-new when they update models? I don't think their floorplans are as new as people assume they are... And Karl, given that the Impala has a completely new exterior skin, new interior, and an all-new slate of engines, how is this not a redesign? --Robert
#2373 of 2391 Re: [savetheland] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (6:40 pm)
Replying to: savetheland (Oct 31, 2005 4:10 pm) I drove both G6 coupe and G6 GTP. Both have good steering feel (I swear that it is not an electric one) IIRC the standard G6 coupe and sedan uses the electric steering, but the GTP has hydraulic steering. I'm not sure if they've recalibrated it or not. My wife drove a G6 last fall and I didn't care for the steering at all - but, then again, I hated it on both the Equinox and the VUE, too. --Robert
#2374 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [editor_karl] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (6:50 pm)
Replying to: editor_karl (Oct 30, 2005 2:47 pm) 2006 Pontiac Torrent - (snip) Great engine/tranny, solid handling and ride quality OK, who are you and what have you done with Editor Karl? I haven't test-driven the Torrent, but I hope they've recalibrated the electric steering from the numbness that was the '04 VUE and '05 Equinox. I've NEVER seen anyone refer to the old 3.4L V6 (made in China for the Equinox/Torrent) as "great". It doesn't get that great of mileage (an aqcuaintance of mine, whose father works for GM, dumped his 'nox because he only got 12-15 mpg with it - but GM could not find anything wrong with it. He just got the first Trailblazer SS produced, and he's getting better mileage with it! GM would do far better to put the new 3.9L V6 in there (and the rumor is that this is what will happen for 2007, when the 3.4 and 3.8L engines finally bite the dust). I had older versions of this engine (2.8L in a '91 Grand Prix, 3.1L in a '96 Lumina) that were fairly bulletproof (no head or intake gasket issues on my cars in 10 years and 170K miles of driving on the two, combined), but these were common with others), but ideal examples of NVH they were not. It's actually a shame that GM beancounters continue to cheapen product due to financial considerations. A former GM product manager posted how the 2004 Grand Prix was to get a 3.7L performance-oriented version of the Olds 3.5L "ShortStar", only to have the plug pulled after a few months of engineering (when the decision was made to axe Olds). Go back and rework the 3800, they were told, and they did (coming up with the Series III). Said product manager also said how much better the G6 would have been had it shipped with the 3.6L DOHC engine like was intended - another decision made by the Product Board to cut corners and costs, due to the company's financial obligations... --Robert
#2375 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [bigdaddycoats] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (6:59 pm)
Replying to: bigdaddycoats (Oct 31, 2005 7:15 am) Did you ever look into whether or not the spy pics of the 07 Envoy are really the Envoy or are they indeed the Acadia? As I'm sure you know, bigdaddy, GM insiders on other web sites have confirmed that this is the Acadia, not the Envoy. Google "GMC Acadia" and you'll find discussions of Edmunds' post elsewhere (sorry, can't direct link without violating Edmunds policy). --Robert wondering if the Chinese will copy this vehicle and call it the Cicada
#2376 of 2391 what the blazes are you guys doing? by blueguydotcom Oct 31, 2005 (7:14 pm)
8.0 seconds to 60 for a Jetta GLI? ( http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=107677/pageId=66194 ). I admit I really, really disliked the GLI - especially it's handling - but how in the world are you guys at Edmunds getting such lousy 0-60 runs out of that car with, imho, the best mass produced engine around? Honestly, it's baffling. That engine has 207 ft-lbs of torque from 1800-5000 rpm...the kind of constant torque most companies would kill to have (my 330i doesn't pull nearly as strongly until it's over 4500 rpm). Then again, I found the TSX more engaging and fun than the GLI - better ergonomics, infinitely better manual (best manuals around), more feedback in the steering...plus the inherent reliability edge of Acura over the utter garbage that is VW engineering. Replies to this message: hammen2 (Oct 31, 2005 7:17 pm) editor_karl (Nov 01, 2005 2:00 pm)
#2377 of 2391 Re: what the blazes are you guys doing? [blueguydotcom] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (7:17 pm)
Replying to: blueguydotcom (Oct 31, 2005 7:14 pm) They also got an over 14 second 1/4 mile time on the 2005 GTO, which many are seeing sub-13 at racetracks in stock form. The Subie guys were also complaining about the 0-60 and 1/4 mile times. I believe Karl has mentioned that they recently changed testing facilities to one that's higher in elevation, and a lot warmer (STi and GTO comparo had the outside temp around 100 IIRC). Not sure if they're not using appropriate correction factors, or they're driving like there's an egg behind the gas pedal, or what, but Edmunds' recent times have been way off what others have duplicated in the real world.
#2378 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [phillyone] by editor_karl Nov 01, 2005 (1:53 pm)
Replying to: phillyone (Oct 31, 2005 2:49 pm) I dont really understand how you could like the Impala but not the GXP. Arent they basically the same V8 powered front drivers on ancient platforms with nothing but sheetmetal to differentiate them? As noted already, these are not really the "same" car. We talked to the Chevy engineers and they told us all the differences between the two (wheel/tire sizes, suspension tuning, steering tuning, etc.). For instance, he told us to floor the V8-powered SS from a dead stop and see if the steering wheel jumped around (which it certainly does on the GXP). On the SS it didn't. He told us the front tire spec and the softer suspension make all the difference. I dont see how the Impala is any more modern or competent than the Cobalt. At least the cobalt is on a modern platform and features modern DOHC engines. There are two elements to every car: 1. The technical background 2. The actual execution Whether you're talking platforms, engines, steering design, etc. it doesn't really matter how "theoretically advanced" a car -- or aspect of a car -- is if the final execution blows. On the Impala SS, the final execution works regardless of the age of the basic platform. On the GXP, it doesn't. On the "brand new" HHR the handling, power and interior quality don't work. Same with Cobalt, except on the power side, which is quite strong. The Pontiac Torrent's engine may not have the best pedigree, but you know what? It works. It has plenty of power. It has low NVH (whether from basic engine design or engine mounting system or level of sound deadening I don't know -- maybe all three). It never feels like it's overwhelmed by the chore of moving the Torrent around; actually it feels pretty spry (unlike the HHR). The finishing order was Accord, Fusion, Sonota and Camry. Do you agree with thos results Karl? Those results sound dead on to me, but I'd have to drive them back-to-back to be sure. I totally agree that the Fusion could use more engine, but otherwise it's a very strong offering. Replies to this message: phillyone (Nov 01, 2005 2:55 pm)