Karl's Daily Log Book - READ ONLY

2391 messages, Last post on Nov 30, 2005 at 6:50 AM

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What is this discussion about? Coupe, Sedan, SUV

Karl Brauer is the Editor in Chief of Edmunds.com, which means he finds himself in a different vehicle almost every day of the week. If you want a daily road test review regarding the latest cars and trucks to hit the market, along with commentary on everything from auto industry happenings to L.A. drivers to his latest close encounter with Johnny Law, this is the place to be.

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#2367 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [editor_karl] by navigator89 Oct 31, 2005 (10:37 am)
Replying to: editor_karl (Oct 30, 2005 2:47 pm) I agree with you there, GM does have some good products in the market now, and many more to come. They have yet to bring out the Pontiac G6 coupe and convertible, Buick Lucerne, Saturn Aura, Sky, Cadillac DTS, STS-V, XLR-V and the latest batch of fullsize SUVs and trucks. Btw, if you've seen the pictures you will agree that they look really nice, especially the interiors. I'd say the domestic manufacturers are hitting homeruns in terms of having new products in the line. Ford doesn't have too much in the future, mainly because most of their cars were just introduced or redesigned. Chrysler will flood the market next year, and so will GM. Replies to this message: phillyone (Oct 31, 2005 2:50 pm)
#2368 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [editor_karl] by phillyone Oct 31, 2005 (2:49 pm)
Replying to: editor_karl (Oct 30, 2005 2:47 pm) Those comments you made about GM products seem a little hard to believe. I would have to check those vehicles out for myself to know for sure. I dont really understand how you could like the Impala but not the GXP. Arent they basically the same V8 powered front drivers on ancient platforms with nothing but sheetmetal to differentiate them? I am seeing a lot of Impalas around and it looks decent, no worse than any Accord and Camry I guess. I would like to see a comparison between the Impala and the 500 or the Impala vs Camry vs Accord. If you think the impala is decent what is your beef with the cobalt? I dont see how the Impala is any more modern or competent than the Cobalt. At least the cobalt is on a modern platform and features modern DOHC engines. Two print mags have the same family sedan comparison in their December issues and the results were the same. The finishing order was Accord, Fusion, Sonota and Camry. Do you agree with thos results Karl? I'm sure you have driven all of these models. Just as I thought, the Fusion isnt going to be able to beat the Accord or Altima in any tests because of it's engine. It just doesnt have enough power to run with the Accord V6. A while back I proposed a comparison between the TL, Passat V6 and Maxima. Any thoughts on that? I also like the idea of a Fusion vs G6 vs Accord comparison. Replies to this message: hammen2 (Oct 31, 2005 6:37 pm) editor_karl (Nov 01, 2005 1:53 pm) phillyone (Nov 01, 2005 2:55 pm)
#2369 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [navigator89] by phillyone Oct 31, 2005 (2:50 pm)
Replying to: navigator89 (Oct 31, 2005 10:37 am) Actually the G6 coupe is already out, as is the DTS. I have seen both on the road. The STS-V comes out this month, and the Lucerne next month.
#2370 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [editor_karl] by redmaxx Oct 31, 2005 (3:10 pm)
Replying to: editor_karl (Oct 31, 2005 7:08 am) The Equinox/Torrent use the same electric steering as the Malibu, G6 and Cobalt. However, there is room for tuning them differently, so maybe that is what you felt.
#2371 of 2391 by savetheland Oct 31, 2005 (4:10 pm)
I drove both G6 coupe and G6 GTP. Both have good steering feel (I swear that it is not an electric one). Three-spoke steering wheel is very good, unlike Malibu’s ugly steering wheel, and engine sound is kinda refined and smooth (have no idea what engine was, but it had enough power). But I did not drive on freeway so don’t know how good it is on freeway. Steering is good but not as good as on German cars (from what G6 was originally derived). The new Impala has unrefined engine sound on base model and thin 80-s style steering wheel. Interior is pretty good though. Replies to this message: hammen2 (Oct 31, 2005 6:40 pm)
#2372 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [phillyone] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (6:37 pm)
Replying to: phillyone (Oct 31, 2005 2:49 pm) I dont really understand how you could like the Impala but not the GXP. Arent they basically the same V8 powered front drivers on ancient platforms with nothing but sheetmetal to differentiate them? Umm... no. The GXP tries to be a performance car, as best a FWD vehicle can be. It has a staggered tire setup (larger on the front than the rear), PBR brakes, Bilstein shocks, et. al. The ride and handling is completely different between the two cars. The Impala is more of a boulevard/highway cruiser with power. And, dont forget that 80+% of that platform was new for the '04 Grand Prix. What percentage of the platform was all-new for the Impala, I don't know, but the Impala's platform code is now GMX211 (was MS2000/GMX210 - derived from the 1988 GM10 W-body, but virtually all parts have changed over the years). Do Honda and Toyota specify what percentage of their platforms are all-new when they update models? I don't think their floorplans are as new as people assume they are... And Karl, given that the Impala has a completely new exterior skin, new interior, and an all-new slate of engines, how is this not a redesign? --Robert
#2373 of 2391 Re: [savetheland] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (6:40 pm)
Replying to: savetheland (Oct 31, 2005 4:10 pm) I drove both G6 coupe and G6 GTP. Both have good steering feel (I swear that it is not an electric one) IIRC the standard G6 coupe and sedan uses the electric steering, but the GTP has hydraulic steering. I'm not sure if they've recalibrated it or not. My wife drove a G6 last fall and I didn't care for the steering at all - but, then again, I hated it on both the Equinox and the VUE, too. --Robert
#2374 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [editor_karl] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (6:50 pm)
Replying to: editor_karl (Oct 30, 2005 2:47 pm) 2006 Pontiac Torrent - (snip) Great engine/tranny, solid handling and ride quality OK, who are you and what have you done with Editor Karl? I haven't test-driven the Torrent, but I hope they've recalibrated the electric steering from the numbness that was the '04 VUE and '05 Equinox. I've NEVER seen anyone refer to the old 3.4L V6 (made in China for the Equinox/Torrent) as "great". It doesn't get that great of mileage (an aqcuaintance of mine, whose father works for GM, dumped his 'nox because he only got 12-15 mpg with it - but GM could not find anything wrong with it. He just got the first Trailblazer SS produced, and he's getting better mileage with it! GM would do far better to put the new 3.9L V6 in there (and the rumor is that this is what will happen for 2007, when the 3.4 and 3.8L engines finally bite the dust). I had older versions of this engine (2.8L in a '91 Grand Prix, 3.1L in a '96 Lumina) that were fairly bulletproof (no head or intake gasket issues on my cars in 10 years and 170K miles of driving on the two, combined), but these were common with others), but ideal examples of NVH they were not. It's actually a shame that GM beancounters continue to cheapen product due to financial considerations. A former GM product manager posted how the 2004 Grand Prix was to get a 3.7L performance-oriented version of the Olds 3.5L "ShortStar", only to have the plug pulled after a few months of engineering (when the decision was made to axe Olds). Go back and rework the 3800, they were told, and they did (coming up with the Series III). Said product manager also said how much better the G6 would have been had it shipped with the 3.6L DOHC engine like was intended - another decision made by the Product Board to cut corners and costs, due to the company's financial obligations... --Robert
#2375 of 2391 Re: GM Turning the Corner? [bigdaddycoats] by hammen2 Oct 31, 2005 (6:59 pm)
Replying to: bigdaddycoats (Oct 31, 2005 7:15 am) Did you ever look into whether or not the spy pics of the 07 Envoy are really the Envoy or are they indeed the Acadia? As I'm sure you know, bigdaddy, GM insiders on other web sites have confirmed that this is the Acadia, not the Envoy. Google "GMC Acadia" and you'll find discussions of Edmunds' post elsewhere (sorry, can't direct link without violating Edmunds policy). --Robert wondering if the Chinese will copy this vehicle and call it the Cicada
#2376 of 2391 what the blazes are you guys doing? by blueguydotcom Oct 31, 2005 (7:14 pm)
8.0 seconds to 60 for a Jetta GLI? ( http://www.edmunds.com/insideline/do/Drives/Comparos/articleId=107677/pageId=66194 ). I admit I really, really disliked the GLI - especially it's handling - but how in the world are you guys at Edmunds getting such lousy 0-60 runs out of that car with, imho, the best mass produced engine around? Honestly, it's baffling. That engine has 207 ft-lbs of torque from 1800-5000 rpm...the kind of constant torque most companies would kill to have (my 330i doesn't pull nearly as strongly until it's over 4500 rpm). Then again, I found the TSX more engaging and fun than the GLI - better ergonomics, infinitely better manual (best manuals around), more feedback in the steering...plus the inherent reliability edge of Acura over the utter garbage that is VW engineering. Replies to this message: hammen2 (Oct 31, 2005 7:17 pm) editor_karl (Nov 01, 2005 2:00 pm)