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Prices Paid: Buying & Leasing Experiences Ford Taurus X Prices Paid and Buying Experiences
765 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 10:28 AM
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Replying to: djkm1 (Jan 17, 2008 6:54 pm) Use the invoice with holdback number. Your goal on this deal is invoice minus $2K (including you $1.5K rebate) so you are trying to get $500 of the dealer's holdback (or other kickback $). When doing the numbers be sure the Destination Charge is not added twice. As for fees: Do not pay for any Dealer Add-ons. Do not pay a Prep Fee (the factory pays the dealer for that already) Watch out for Ad, Training, or Assessment Fees Watch out for the infamous Document Fee Bottom line: If the fee is not part of the TTL fees paid to the local and state Gov't, then question the fee. You should fully understand all the numbers on your sales contract. Before you sign, it may be a good idea to take it home, so you can look it over. Extended Warranty, if you want one, shop the net first, so you have an idea of what one cost. The Ford ESP is a good program, but if you do not know what you are doing, they will make 75-100% markup on this product. Unless they offer you a deal of a lifetime on this product, it may be best to leave it out of the current deal. You can always purchase one later. Good Luck!
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Replying to: seloo (Jan 18, 2008 2:42 am) 3% for Ford So for a 28,000 car the holdback is $840, so if you sell it for $500 less than invoice they get $340 on the deal. plus any factory to dealer money, monthly sales incentive, and most likely a volume kickback. So how much exactly? These amounts are spread over all the cars they sell, so it's hard to identify a specifc amount on a specific sale. That why selling a car for $500 below invoice is not "good money" for a dealer...at least not necessarily all the time. I'm not saying that there are not specific reasons they'll do it (end of the month, just one more vehicle to sell to meet a monthly sales incentive, etc) but you make it sound as though every person walking into a dealer should expect to pay $500 below invoice for their cars. If they did, then the dealers would be out of business pretty quick. I'm all for good deals, but a little realistic perspective is a good thing too. On the other hand, the TauruxX isn't a hot selling vehicle, so you will find some good deals and you're right in that it's good to question the varies fees and costs, but on the other hand, my time is worth at least $20/hour, so if I'm spending hours, days or even weeks of my time going to different dealers, calling, emailing, etc, it better be to save a couple of thousand dollars versus a couple of hundred. That's another factor that needs to be incorporated into any savings but for everyone it's a little different. But good luck Tom and keep your advise coming 
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Replying to: bobw3 (Jan 18, 2008 7:26 am) |
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Replying to: bobw3 (Jan 18, 2008 7:26 am) $20 an hour, your time is cheap! As you know, a good deal can be had in a few minutes if you know what you are doing. I always (not really) enjoy hearing from you. If nothing else, I hope a few folks save some dollars on these car deals. Take care!
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Replying to: seloo (Jan 10, 2008 9:17 am) Post your best deal in terms of below invoice price: 07 Freestyle $4900 below invoice. (Any of these left on the market?) 08 T-X $1000 below invoice. (This number is very low, better deals are being made with the CX-9 and VC) With all the rebates, at a minimum current deals on 08s should be at least equal to the rebate below the invoice price. (ie... $2000 rebate = $2000 below invoice) Watch out for extra fees! Good Luck. |
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Replying to: seloo (Jan 18, 2008 3:06 am) Thanks for all of the info, it's been very educational. I'll let you know what I get for a deal in the end as I plan to order by this weekend. My strategy is just as you outlined above. I have a better equiped poker-face to work with now 
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Replying to: seloo (Jan 18, 2008 11:11 am) Just because somewhere in the country a couple of people might have paid $1000 below invoice for a CX-9, for example, is meaningless information. You don't know where the information came from, all the aspects of the deal, trade-in, finance, time/date of purchase, locations, dealer inventory at the time, etc. But your posts imply that $1000 below invoice is the standard you should expect to pay and if you pay more you're getting ripped off...at least that's implied in my opinion. The repeated, copy/paste posts on multiple forums reminds me of late night advertising get rich scams where you see folks claiming to make $10,000/month working a few hours per week. Of course the fine-print disclaimer is that these are very unique stories, just as some of the prices being posted may be very unique situations with questionable accuracy. Plus the whole idea of fees being bad can be misleading too. A dealer may wave the $500 prep fee or other fees, so the buyer thinks he's getting a good deal, so he's happy to hand over his trade-in for thousands less and pay a higher interest rate. Bottom line is that the main emphasis should not be on fees, but on the bottom line, including trade, finance and total price of the car. Then you take that information to another dealer and see if they'll give you a lower total price. Whether or not dealer A charges you a $600 prep fee while dealer B doesn't charge any prep fee is meaningless. All that matters is the bottom line price. That's what you should emphasize in your copy/pasted posts across several forums. Sorry if the post sounds terse, but I'm just hoping to save folks some money on their bottom line...not just reduce/eliminat a few fees or just some other small part of the overall bottom line price.
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Replying to: bobw3 (Jan 19, 2008 2:48 am) I understand your point, but I disagree! Your approach offers very little help to anyone, but the car dealers. This information provides a reference point for perspective car buyers. I agree it is not perfect, but I believe the majority of postings are from honest people that are trying to help the next guy/gal on a car deal. The good news is that it is working! (People are becoming educated and are saving money). With all the information available on car prices, dealers are using fees to confuse consumers and pad profits, that is why I am pushing this issue (but again you already know that). As more people post their stories (as you can see, I do attempt to QC the information before posting it) buyers have a better understanding of the market and prices on deals have fallen significantly. This is just a small attempt to level the playing field through the use of information technology. No one is being forced to read this board and no one has to agree with the information being posted. I wish all the best of luck on their next car deal! Keep posting those good deals. |
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Your approach offers very little help to anyone, but the car dealers. My approach is to reduce the overall cost paid and not just focus "how much below invoice" one dealer is offering or the different types of fees. I'm not sure how this infomation about going for the lowest total costs helps the dealers? Your information is a good starting point, but in your post requests for the best deals per invoice price, if you're going to go that far than why not request the entire deal, including financing rates, trade-in, any accessories purchased, extended warranty purchased, etc... Yes you do tell people to watch out for those add-ons, but rather than just posting a "how much below incoice price" try posting more details on the deal. Maybe examples help: Person A posts that they bought their TX for $2000 below invoice, plus another $1000 rebate, so you'll say great and tell everyone that the new benchmark is $3000 below invoice including rebates... However what is not posted, or what's put in the fine print is as follows: Person A also traded in a vehicle and based on the price the dealer gave him, the dealer just gained $2000 fromPerson A for the trade in. Person A bought the extended warranty through the dealer, so the dealer gained another $500. Person A financed through the dealer and is giving them 7% interest over the next 60 months. Person A bought a 3 year maintenance, also giving money to the dealers. With this information, we can see that Person A's deal of $3000 below invoice isn't necessarily a good deal at all. But the dealer was able to offer the price of $3000 below invoice including rebates because the dealer was making money elsewhere. That's why I'm saying that it can be misleading just to post the price of the car and then try to pretend that it's the price everyone should expect to pay. When people read you or anyones posts on their "great deal below invoice price" everyone reading it should understand that there could be a lot going into the price that's not being identified in the post. And again, people should simply try to get the best deal from one dealer (total bottom line cost) and then go to another dealer to see if they can give you a better deal. The better deal may in fact be the one where the actual car price may be higher, but then the other dealer is giving the person a better trade-in or better finance rate. I'm sure some people will say to never finance at the dealer and never give them a trade-in and that's good advice, but considering many people do that, it's good to give them information about negotiating the total price.
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