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Smart Shopper Purchasing Strategies - Questions & Success Stories
3884 messages, Last post on Apr 08, 2009 at 1:08 PM
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Replying to: bobst (Feb 20, 2005 8:23 pm) For example, if I send out an Email specifying the exact kind of car I want and the exact options I want, is it reasonable to ask the dealer for an OTD price?" when working exclusively on the net - also be sure to verify if they have the car in stock, and ask if there is a restriction on the price in case they need to order it. |
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Replying to: richk1 (Feb 20, 2005 11:17 pm) Lets see if I have this right .. you burn up 3/4 hours of your time and burn up 3/4 hours of other salesmans time - and you find your price and your vehicle at your local dealer..? .. why didn't you just do your research first, then go to the dealer..? This is pretty pathetic, I don't know if I would be bragging about this one ..l.o.l... Terry.
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My method of buying a new car is fairly simple - I tend to buy makes that have a lot of supply (my tastes seem to be out of the mainstream a little bit), and once I find an advertised price that I like on one I want, I go to a dealership, find the newest salesperson (they are anxious for the sale, and I'll have to speak with the sales manager to get the price I want anyways), and ask them if they will match the price. 9 times out of 10, they will. If there is a minor option that I would like that is not on the sale car (say, less than $500), I offer to pay list price on the option just to move the process along, and after all, negotiation is a two way street. It also gives me the leverage in refusing to pay high documentation and/or processing fees. The only time it didn't work was on my wife's (girlfriend at the time) 2000 Corolla. I always love Toyota dealerships - after they spend an hour talking about how reliable their cars are, they spend an hour in the F&I office trying to explain why you need an extended warranty. Then the browbeating on job-loss insurance began. My strategy worked well on my 2000 Intrepid R/T, though looking back, I should have bought another Grand Marquis instead - it is a much more durable vehicle. My next purchase is another Grand Marquis LS Ultimate, and Mercury dealerships are especially accomodating on the Grand Marquis - they know you will be back to buy another one eventually, as they get a lot of repeat business, and the discounts are huge (I was offered $11,000 off of a list price of $33,000 on a choice of four leftover 2004 Ultimates). The problem is my 11 year old Grand Marquis refuses to wear out, so it could be a few more years. |
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For me, the main issue is knowing what I want and what my needs are, and balancing them. I have bought a lot (too many) cars lately, though not as many as some Alaskans. For me, there are four issues when buying the car (in no particular order): - Space (can I and my stuff fit in it) - Comfort (does my arm go numb) - Driving experience (I like a sporty ride) - Cost (Duh...can I afford it) So, space and cost I can research on the net (I nee at least 38" of headroom, for example). Comfort and driving experience need to be evaluated. In my last car purchase, my camry and enough space, in comfortable, and was affordable. However, the driving experience leaves me bored. I joke that the car is dangerous because it will put me to sleep. So, because I want a sportier ride, I am looking at buying a new car. I will probably buy a Subie Legacy, execpt, the cost is a little high. The Mazda6, which is more affordable does not fit me ideally. Or I can learn to be happy in my Camry. As a wise car dealer often says: Buy what you like....
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Replying to: manamal (Feb 21, 2005 4:59 am) I've thoroughly enjoyed reading this site over the last few months. The stories from sales personnel and from buyers have provided countless hours of entertainment and insight. That said, it AMAZES me the lengths some buyers are willing to go to in order to save a quarter per cent on their purchase. Some people have WAY too much time on their hands. Look, decide what a fair - FAIR - price is, and if you find a salesperson and dealership whom you trust, JUST BUY THE DARN THING. Now that I've established that I'm holier than thou, here's my story: I knew I wanted to buy an '05 Nissan Maxima. I checked Edmunds for the TMV, I grabbed my credit report to check my beacon (722), and I mentally listed the local Nissan dealerships in my area in order of preference. I figured I'd start at the top and work my way down until I found one with the vehicle (color, options, etc) I wanted. I wasn't worried about getting a good price, because these days, getting a decent price isn't nearly as difficult as some people try to make it. With TMV, it should be a piece of cake. At least in my area, it IS cake. I'm a very cordial fellow. I want people to like me and I'm eager to show respect toward others. I've encountered some people on here who seem to think the best way to get a good price is to do whatever they can to drive the salesperson's image of self worth into the ground. Why is that necessary? My strategy was this: establish OTD fees up front, know what financing I qualify for, make an offer at invoice, and accept the counter-offer if it's below TMV. Now, I realize that my strategy is a little arbitrary. However, I'm not interested in nickel-and-diming this experience to death. Will I leave some cash on the table? Probably. Will I get a "good deal"? In my opinion, it will be fair for everyone. If I can't get TMV, I wait until I can. If I can avoid it, I don't wait until I'm in a crucial bind to replace a car. Now, in my area (Columbus, Ohio) I have 4 Nissan dealerships from which to choose... and from a quality standpoint, they're quite easy to rank. In fact, let's do that now: 1. Buckeye Nissan Excellent service, very low-key salespeople. A previous experience left a very good taste in my mouth. Salespeople here are adequately familiar with the product. They're not gurus, but the average consumer will learn a thing or two here. They'll acknowledge your presence about 5 or 10 minutes after you arrive, and you'll have some breathing room if you want it. They key in to subtle hints. 2. Nissan North A bit of an unknown, but gets the #2 rank by default... 3. Germain Nissan Part of a large local chain. Of the local chains, Germain is probably the best, but that's not saying much. Two previous experiences involved a few minor shenanigans. Salespeople here know very little about their cars, but are quite eager to "help". They'll kick the tires, point out the gas cap, and show you that cool, understated "pop-the-hood" trick. "Hey look! There's the engine!!!" 4. Ricart Automotive This is where you go after you declare bankruptcy and decide you've "outgrown" that Ford Mustang you leased last month. A laundry list of class action lawsuits haunts this place. Salespeople here know they sell cars. Despite their lack of helpfulness/usefulness, they'll be ready to pounce from the ledges when you arrive. So I start at the top. I have two color combinations in mind. The Maxima comes fairly loaded out of the gate, so there aren't many options to muddy the waters. I wanted the Driver Preferred Package (leather trim, Bose system, etc) but not the Elite Package. Pretty simple stuff. Now, my search began in the beginning of February. I wanted to purchase the car after I got back from a vacation I was taking the following week. I wasn't under the gun, but I wasn't screwing around either. I'm not one of those people who needs to turn a car purchase into an 18 month search for "The One". I visit Buckeye (#1) and check their inventory. I tell the salesperson (Gunnar White - very nice guy) what I'm looking for and what my timeframe is. He checks his inventory and says that he doesn't have the car in either of my color choices, but he has several on the lot with the correct options. He says he can bring one in from another dealership. I explain that I'm a little finicky about bringing the car over from another dealership. I intend to keep this car for the duration of its entire life, and I want one with very low mileage and one that hasn't been redlined on our outer belt during its break-in period. I explain that I understand it's a little anal, but this is my first vehicle PURCHASE (I'm through leasing), and this is my baby. He understands completely. He lets me test drive one of the vehicles and I love it. I get back 30 minutes later (I don't need 18 months to find a car, and I don't need 24 hours to test drive one) and I thank him for his time. I explain that I'll be ready to buy in two weeks and if he has an SE in stock with the DPP in either of my color choices, he has my business. I know I can make this commitment to him before discussing price because I had just previously assisted my sister in the purchase of an X-Terra from this dealership, and they aren't out to gouge anyone's eyes out. I'm confident we'll arrive at a fair price. I get back from vacation about a week and a half later and, unfortunately, Buckeye does not have a vehicle in stock nor do they have one on the way. If I was a patient man, I probably would have waited, but I'm not so I didn't. I didn't take up much of the salesperson's time, so I don't feel too guilty about extending my search, although I do wish I could have purchased it there. I am curious as to why their stock was so thin. I think they had 5 Maximas, and 3 were identical vehicles (down to the color). Weird. Nissan North (#2) had a pitiful stock. Also only had 5 Maximas, but they were all the lowest trim package. They were quick to follow up on an internet inquiry I made with them, as was Germain (#3), but they had zero stock. Moot point. Germain also called me up soon after my internet inquiry. I said that I noticed on nissanusa.com that they had the vehicle I was looking for and I asked for a price. The internet manager said he could give me 1% over invoice. This was actually below TMV. I asked about fees, and they said they charged a $100 "doc fee", whatever the heck that is. OTD, it was a good price and still below TMV. I told him I'd give him a call back in the next few hours. THE JUICE For good measure, I wanted to check out the Infiniti Q35. I visited a dealership nearby and I liked the car, but frankly, it's steering was pretty stiff and I didn't much care for the salesperson who, after I told I was strongly considering
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Replying to: tylerjb1 (Feb 21, 2005 12:43 pm) For good measure, I wanted to check out the Infiniti Q35. I visited a dealership nearby and I liked the car, but frankly, it's steering was pretty stiff and I didn't much care for the salesperson who, after I told I was strongly considering the Maxima, proceeded to degrade it in every way imaginable. After a short Q35 test-drive, I called the internet manager back at Germain and asked him to verify that the vehicle in question was on the lot. He assured me he was staring right at it. I told him I was on my way. I went back home, rounded up my wife and two children (6 months and 18 months, but both very well-behaved), and drove 25 miles to Germain. As I'm stepping out of the car, the internet manager approaches me. I introduce myself and he gives me the "oh man, you won't believe this... right after I talked to you [LESS THAN AN HOUR AGO!] someone else sold your car!" "Go figure." "Yeah, I can't believe it." "Say... where is the lucky fella now? I'd still like to look at the car, as I haven't seen this combination in person before." "Oh he just left with it." "Wow... he must have set a land speed record. My sister just paid cash for a car over at Buckeye and it still took us an hour and a half." [Our discussion is quite playful and jovial, but he can sense I'm busting his chops a little - I'm not happy that I've towed my wife children across town all for nothing] "Yeah, I'm real sorry about that." "Well, since I'm already here, I'll see what else you have in stock." "Take your time... if you find something you like, I'll still give you the 1% internet offer." I look around and they actually have a color option in stock that I hadn't seen before or considered, but I liked it. I take it out for a short spin, it drives well, but doesn't pull me out of the irked mood I'm in. The stench of bait and switch fills the air, but this guy seems genuinely sorry for the trouble. Despite his sincerity, no one buys a car in 45 minutes... especially not at Germain. "Well, I like this color combination, and it has the options I want. I'll sleep on it. Take care." To my surprise, he let's me leave without any hassle. After I get home, I decide to check Ricart's stock. I really didn't want to give Germain my money, but I detest Ricart. Thankfully, they didn't have much of a stock either. I drove up there with my sister and her boyfriend and there were not one, not two, but THREE car jockeys surrounding our vehicle before we had even opened the doors. Folks, it was truly pathetic. I actually laughed out loud at this monkeys. They literally looked like vulchers. "What are you looking for today?" "Nothing. We'll let you know if we need anything." I've been in sales before. It's a rough life and it takes a special person to not only succeed in it, but to actually be helpful to your customers. Like isellhondas. THAT'S a salesperson (I'll need an Odyssey in about a year isell... can you sell long distance?). These guys were a farce. I can put up with a lot, but there's something about getting pounced on before even exiting my vehicle that just rubs me the wrong way. Anywho, they're inventory stunk. In fact, they didn't have a single '05 on the lot (all the other dealerships had '05's... no '04's). Ricart had about 8 Maximas, and they were all '04's that looked like they had been rotting on the lot for a year. Good... looks like all of those bad CSI's are starting to take their toll. If a planet-sized meteorite careened into the center of this forsaken auto mall, I'd do a little dance. Naturally, I would hope it would happen at night when no one was there (or at least only when there were no customers... you know, like right before they open). The next day, I gave Germain some hard thought. They had the one car in town I wanted. Buckeye had nothing on the way. I wasn't in a real jam or anything, but I don't like to turn these things into life-monopolizing affairs, and I've already wasted one weekend. So I pulled the trigger at Germain. "Hey Mr. Internet Manager, I'm back. Let's write that car up." I filled out my loan app (I wanted Nissan's 2% APR). I didn't yank my wife out with me this time, so I arrived with my Power of Attorney in hand. For those that don't know, this gives me the ability to act as my wife. In this case, I wanted her to cosign on the loan. Line one of the PoA states "...the right to lease, borrow, blah blah blah blah". Well, I guess this was enough to cause the F&I guy to spring a leak. He comes over to me and my salesman: "I don't know what this thing is, but we don't take these here." "What do you mean you don't 'take these'? It's not a coupon for a free car. It's a legal document giving me the right to act on my wife's behalf." "Well, we need her here to sign the papers. You can't sign them for her." "The very first line of that document says I can, and it's been signed by two witnesses and it's been notarized." "Sorry." "Well, I'm putting enough down on the thing that it shouldn't need her anyway, so just run it through with just myself on there." So we got that behind us and we were smooth sailing, that is, until the official "sit down" with the F&I underlord. While I do maintain a level of respect for respectable salespeople, I've yet to find a justifiable reason to not spend one second more with an F&I guy than is absolutely necessary. "Hi, I'm Seth, and I'm just here to fill out the paperwork and get you into your new car!" Business as usual, until the warranty garbage comes up. He shows me some stupid grid with 6 or 7 different warranty packages. He gives me the rundown on package 1. I say no. He moves to package 2. I say no. Package 3. And so on and so on. Obviously, this is designed to wear you down while gradually decreasing the price. By the time we get to the second to last one, I'm getting irritated and so is he. "Seriously man, I just want to buy the car. I want to give you my check for $5,000, and I want you to give me the payment I agreed to for the term I agreed to. That's it." "Well, let me show you this last option. It protects the rims of your cars." "What?" "It protects the rims from becoming warped or dented." "Aside from a sledge hammer, what the heck is going to warp my rims?" "Potholes, debris in the road, etc." In all fairness, potholes are a major problem in my area, but at this point I'm beyond irritated. I'm waiting for this chump to try to sell me an air plan for my tires. "You know, Seth, I've never had any damage done to my rims... and I've done some pretty crazy crap in my time." "But have you ever run over a muffler in the road?" "I ran over the wheel - not the tread, the WHEEL - of a semi at 65 miles an hour. First it hit the front driver's side wheel, then the rear. I blew out both tires. Miraculously, the delicate rims survived." "Wow, you
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Replying to: tylerjb1 (Feb 21, 2005 12:43 pm) "Here, I can actually give you this plan for $20 less." "What do you mean '$20 less'?" "The price of the car will actually be $20 less." Now, despite the fact that I have a fairly extensive mathematical background, I'm actually terrible with numbers... especially on-the-fly. I was very careful throughout the whole process to make sure that nothing changed, financially, unless I initiated it and I fully understood exactly what was going on. This guy was screwing that up, and I saw confusion on the horizon. Nothing in life is free, especially at car dealerships. For the first time throughout this ordeal, I felt as if someone was trying to slide something by on me. Like I said earlier, I'm a pretty easy going guy. I like to joke around a lot and I can stick to my guns while keeping things light. But, the quickest way to piss me off and turn me into a rude, pissy, inconsiderate customer is to treat me like an idiot. Now, I may actually BE an idiot, but I'm smart enough to recognize when someone has decided to take a swipe because they've sized me up as too dumb to know better. "How do you get me that warranty for $20 less?" "Through the structure of the deal." "No kidding. That doesn't my question." "It's just the structure of the loan." "What ABOUT the structure of the loan. What keys did you push to do that." "Well, it's a bit complicated, but you come out ahead $20 and you get your rims covered under warranty for 5 years." "It can't be too complicated... you banged it out in 30 seconds." "Well, I see you're not interested in it, so I'll just take it off." "NO. I want to know EXACTLY what you did to save me $20 and get me that warranty. What part of the 'structure' did you change to achieve those figures?" "Well, honestly, I don't really understand it too well myself, so I'll just take it off. I know you're not interested." "You knew I wasn't interested in any of this a half hour ago, but whatever. Let's just finish this." I probably could have drilled him further on it, but I had already made my point. In hindsight, I still don't know what he could have done to do that. It's also interesting to note that, at this point, I had been at the dealership for 3 hours. Remember that guy who bought my car the day before and got in and out in 45 minutes? All told, I was there for close to 4 hours. My salesman, aside from the a potential dishonesty about the original vehicle, was nice. The F&I guy SUCKED, and the time it took SUCKED. I knew exactly what I wanted when I got there, I had everything ready, had good credit, etc. I can't decide how I'm going to handle the CSI. I know for sure the F&I guy is screwed, but I can't decide how to handle the salesman. There is the slight possibility that my car really was there the day before, and I don't want to hurt this guy if it was an honest slip. At the same time, I think I was reminded 18 times to give them all good scores, and I've since received 3 letters and 4 emails reinforcing the point. I hate that. If you're not confident enough in your service that you feel you need to pound the survey into my skull, then maybe something is wrong. |
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First of all, thank you to the many contributors on this message board over the last month; your input was a huge help in getting what I believe was a very good deal on the car I purchased yesterday......yeah, yeah, yeah, I know - if I'm happy with it, then it was a good deal  For those that are interested, here's the quick rundown on my latest purchase experience. A couple of weeks ago, I spent an afternoon test driving different cars so I could decide which vehicle I'd purchase......I settled on the Accord EX-L V6 w/ navi. I live in the MD suburbs of DC where there are literally 16 Honda dealers within a 25mi radius from my house. Using the honda.com website as a basis, I spent about 75-90 mins going to each dealer's site to request a "quick quote" for the car. The only dealer I didn't email was the one where I took my test drive - more on that later. In the emails/notes to the dealerships, I always used a respectful, business tone, but by including things like purchase intent date and asking a few poignant questions about color combos/availability and additional costs, I think I was able to convey the fact that I was a very real buyer and not someone casually poking around the net. And if that hadn't been successfully communicated it at that point, I think it became pretty clear to most dealers soon thereafter as almost every response I got let to at least one followup email to make sure the OTD price really included things like: dest fees, doc processing, which dealer installed extras were included, accommodations for MD taxes and tags (as opposed to VA), etc. Again, in each email back and forth, I generally thanked the person on the other end for their time, help and speediness of response (if applicable).....yeah, I know this is their job, but its still nice to be appreciated. 10 (now 11) of the 14 dealers got back to me with OTD prices ranging from $27.7 (but not in stock in the color I wanted) thru $29.7.....best price I had on an in-stock vehicle was $27.9. My next step was to figure out what color combos were acceptable for me so for that I could do the next cycle of emails which was to clarify availability of the specific model/color/options I wanted. Yesterday I stopped back at the dealer closest to me where I had done my test drive and I asked for the salesman that had helped me. I told him that I had been trading emails with all the other local dealers, but stressed that I hadn't contacted his dealership since I didn't want to make commission issues complicated if I did end up buying there......the relief that came across his face at that moment was very noticeable. I went on to explain that I was there to look at color combos and once I was done with the email search, I'd come back in and give him the oppty to match the best offer since he had legitimately invested the most time with me. We walked through the lot looking at each of the color combos. They only had 2 of the models with navi, and as it turned out, one was my first choice for color. I told him the best price I had received so far for an instock model and asked what he thought.....withOUT going to his manager, he played with some numbers and said it sounded like a legitimate quote and that he'd take another $100 off if I bought that afternoon. Done. A quick call to my wife to have her come look at the car and test drive it with me, and we were set. While I truly believe a second round of emails would have saved me another $200-$300, I found a lot of value in having the purchase finalized AND from the dealer closest to my house. In all - I must probably spent close to 4hrs (at my convenience) doing emails and keeping track of final prices/options from each dealer. Of course, another few hours were spent at the dealership yesterday for color research, test drives and paperwork. In all, I spent maybe 6hours to get, what seems to be, a very good price in light of what I'm reading in the Prices Paid boards. I know some people love to go to dealerships and do "the dance", but with two kids at home and limited time on the weekends, this was a whole lot easier and controlled for me. Hope others find this helpful! Rich |
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I thought that if I asked for an OTD price, I would get a mesage kinda like, "We will sell you the car for $100 over invoice. Come in and we will talk about it." We are going to buy a car in a few weeks, and I will be interested to see how responsive the dealers are.
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| then you make the trip and find out they plan on adding 14 different fees for a $600 bump... | |
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