Diesels in the News

Replying to: john1701a (Jan 15, 2009 8:23 pm)

Well the gasser Jetta gets 29 mpg!! So 28.6 % is better !!
 
The most obvious thing is they are not testing the Prius Hybrid side by side with the TDI. They might be afraid of the conclusions. If they run it like they purport to run the TDI, your 47.8 mph is probably totally blown !!
 
But on the other hand, over 112,000 miles my TDI yields about 50 mpg vs what you report. The range has been from 44 to 62 mpg. While I do know how to drive both, and for max mpg in each, I really don't even try on the TDI. So for example 75 mph with bursts to 80, it will get 59 mpg. In a daily commute 54 R/T miles Civic/Jetta TDI are ranges of 38-42, 48-52 mpg respectively. It would be interesting to know what a TDI hybrid Prius would do over and above your 47.8 mph. But as you know a TDI hybrid Prius is NOT made. This shows in like models, the policy is to talk about burning less while burning more !!! AND it is the law ! Might be why they don't want a diesel Prius that will get better mpg than a gasser Prius. ! It is certainly dramatic in the like models VW Jettas !

Replies to this message:
• john1701a (Jan 16, 2009 5:46 pm)
  • gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 6:25 am)
  • ruking1 (Jan 17, 2009 7:53 am)

Replying to: john1701a (Jan 15, 2009 8:23 pm)

You left out some of the important information in your article. Comparing a Prius to a Jetta TDI is a joke. I spent a little over 15 minutes in a friend's 2009 Prius and they are a noisy little POC. I guess if you are not interested in smooth quiet safe handling they are ok. The new Fusion Hybrid shows promise. If Ford is as proud of them as the Escape Hybrid the $10k difference in price will never be found with better mileage. My brother in law just went out to buy the Escape hybrid. He ended up with the V6 loaded for $22k. The dealer would not come off of the $32k MSRP on the FEH. He is happy with the 21 MPG he is getting the first 1500 miles. For those that have more money than brains the hybrids are fine. I believe they suffer from certain psychological ailments that only wasting money will cure.
 
From your posted article:
even compared to the now class-leading 2010 Ford Fusion hybrid that netted 34 mpg overall in their 300-mile test run. Their Jetta TDI has averaged 37.3 mpg in the over 11,000 miles they've accrued thus far, and guaranteed those miles have seen plenty of full throttle driving and liberal use of full boost from its turbocharger. A cross-country tour by mileage-busting Australian couple John and Helen Taylor netted 58 mpg from a stock VW Jetta TDI, and that was earned while staying within 5 mph of the posted limit, not put-putting at 10mph or anything ridiculous.
 
PS
You could have felt really smug if you had put that 110k miles on a Moped at 200 MPG. Without all the wasted complexity of a hybrid.
 
Welcome back John!

Replies to this message:
• ruking1 (Jan 16, 2009 6:10 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Jan 16, 2009 5:48 am)

Outside of the "gee wiz" sexy stuff on the Prius, it actually compares better with Toyota Corolla/Honda Civic. The Civic handles better!!!! For my .02 cents, both figuratively and literally, the price differential blows the Prius out of the water. So for example, when we needed a commute car, we chose the 04 Civic against the 04 Prius and the price difference of 12,500 then and now, will certainly buy a lot of RUG.
 
So while I know stating the facts is like raking finger nails on a chalk board to John, $12,500 today's rug prices $2. per gal will buy 6,250 gals: 38 mpg, will give me 237,500 more commute miles. I wonder if he would run the B/E between the two being as how he gets 47.8 mpg. vs my range of 38-42 for a purposeful commute

Replying to: ruking1 (Jan 15, 2009 10:00 pm)

Replies to this message:
• gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 6:25 am)
• ruking1 (Jan 17, 2009 7:53 am)

Replying to: john1701a (Jan 16, 2009 5:46 pm)

Replying to: john1701a (Jan 16, 2009 5:46 pm)

Notice that to come to the conclusion he did (he's writing to consuming demographics and their sense and sensibiities) ; to push the "fairness" scenario, even he did not directly compare a Jetta diesel to a Prius hybrid, as the Prius is obviously and CLEARLY more costly ! So get some "Insight" if you believe the hybrid to diesel challenge is a WASH.
 
link title
 
My premise is still the same, in like models diesel burns LESS, gasser burns more. If the system WAS/IS really serious about compelling people, give the folks an IRS tax credit (7500 in the 04 MY) for folks to buy a hybrid a gasser price- like model. )

Replies to this message:
• gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 9:22 am)
  • ruking1 (Jan 17, 2009 10:14 am)

Replying to: ruking1 (Jan 17, 2009 8:46 am)

Replies to this message:
• ruking1 (Jan 17, 2009 10:14 am)

Replying to: gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 9:22 am)

Indeed ! The Jetta TDI tax credit of $1,300 tax year 2009 brings the real cost down. You already know this, (but I had this discussion yesterday with a relative lunch yesterday) and that is LOWER market fuel prices, diesel (per mile driven) percentage advantages do indeed lessen. But as I have mentioned in the past it is really a metric/barometer of how serious the system is about REAL fuel cuts rather than just INCREASING the fuel componet (per mile driven) cost.
 
So for example 4 dollars per gal the American consumers and voters have LOUDLY made their preferences known. But leave it to the politicians to find "creative" ways to increase the per mile driven costs !!!! There is literally no question the system SERIOUSLY wants to increase the per mile driven cost ! One way they have decided to do it is to weave EVERY concept in the color GREEN. Upshot was: how long do you think fuel prices will remain LOW or sink lower? The other side of it of course is it makes a 15 year old SUV very cost effective to operate. The metric is whatever the monrhly payment of a Prius is (say 597.00 for 4 years: say . 2 per gal that gets me 4477 miles per mo!! or 53000 miles per year. We do far less than 1000 miles per month. SO, If I exceed the monthly fuel cost in the owned SUV it is time to get something cheaper. But it is weird to get a size 5 shoe when your need/want is really a size 15.
 
So to me oxymoronically and counter intuitively, now is the time to buy diesels as fuel prices remain low (or sink lower) and the perceived advantages of diesel are called into question.

Replying to: roland3 (Jan 15, 2009 6:59 am)

Replies to this message:
• roland3 (Jan 21, 2009 6:43 am)