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8144 messages, Last post on Dec 03, 2009 at 4:39 PM
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Replying to: larsb (Jan 15, 2009 7:24 am) Their Jetta TDI has averaged 37.3 mpg in the over 11,000 miles they've accrued thus far. The 47.8 MPG from 110,867 miles with my 2004 Prius pretty much killed it anyway. And the MPG from the new 2010 model will most definitely make that clear. But the ultimate wake-up call is Ford joining in with Fusion-Hybrid. It further comfirms that engine-only technology simply doesn't make any sense... regardless of fuel type. |
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Replying to: john1701a (Jan 15, 2009 8:23 pm) The most obvious thing is they are not testing the Prius Hybrid side by side with the TDI. They might be afraid of the conclusions. If they run it like they purport to run the TDI, your 47.8 mph is probably totally blown !! But on the other hand, over 112,000 miles my TDI yields about 50 mpg vs what you report. The range has been from 44 to 62 mpg. While I do know how to drive both, and for max mpg in each, I really don't even try on the TDI. So for example  75 mph with bursts to 80, it will get 59 mpg. In a daily commute 54 R/T miles Civic/Jetta TDI are ranges of 38-42, 48-52 mpg respectively. It would be interesting to know what a TDI hybrid Prius would do over and above your 47.8 mph. But as you know a TDI hybrid Prius is NOT made. This shows in like models, the policy is to talk about burning less while burning more !!! AND it is the law ! Might be why they don't want a diesel Prius that will get better mpg than a gasser Prius. ! It is certainly dramatic in the like models VW Jettas !
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Replying to: john1701a (Jan 15, 2009 8:23 pm)  From your posted article: even compared to the now class-leading 2010 Ford Fusion hybrid that netted 34 mpg overall in their 300-mile test run. Their Jetta TDI has averaged 37.3 mpg in the over 11,000 miles they've accrued thus far, and guaranteed those miles have seen plenty of full throttle driving and liberal use of full boost from its turbocharger. A cross-country tour by mileage-busting Australian couple John and Helen Taylor netted 58 mpg from a stock VW Jetta TDI, and that was earned while staying within 5 mph of the posted limit, not put-putting at 10mph or anything ridiculous. PS You could have felt really smug if you had put that 110k miles on a Moped at 200 MPG. Without all the wasted complexity of a hybrid. Welcome back John!
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 16, 2009 5:48 am) So while I know stating the facts is like raking finger nails on a chalk board to John, $12,500 today's rug prices $2. per gal will buy 6,250 gals: 38 mpg, will give me 237,500 more commute miles. I wonder if he would run the B/E between the two being as how he gets 47.8 mpg. vs my range of 38-42 for a purposeful commute 
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jan 15, 2009 10:00 pm) Statistical misleading doesn't change the 37.3 MPG outcome. The bigger, faster, more efficient 2010 Prius drives the point home... Any technology delivering 50 MPG and SULEV emissions is the future. .
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Replying to: john1701a (Jan 16, 2009 5:46 pm) Hmm Same length and 3/4 of an inch wider. I guess that is bigger. Gained 8/10ths of a second 0-60 MPH. I guess that is faster. Does it still ride like a Mack truck and so noisy you cannot talk inside? Does it handle the same as the old one like a cheap golf cart? I think the 2010 Prius would qualify for the saying a "Pig with Lipstick, is still a Pig". Are we supposed to be impressed with 50 MPG combined? The last generation had a 55 MPG rating until the EPA changed the test methods to fit hybrid technology. I don't see any EPA test results yet. Still a lot smaller than the competing Jetta TDI. And will never be as much fun to drive as the Jetta. I think that there should be a hybrid challenge. A race between the Prius and the Jetta TDI. We know which would win the fastest around the track. We should also see which gets the best mileage driving flat out. I think you would find the Prius just about worthless. I think they got 17 MPG with a Prius when driving it aggressively. And the Jetta TDI was in the high 30 MPG range. And lastly, I doubt Toyota is going to want to ship the new Prius over here from China until they sell the 1000s of 09 Prius still sitting on the lots getting older by the day. Got any diesel news or are we supposed to fall down and worship your hybrid god? |
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Replying to: john1701a (Jan 16, 2009 5:46 pm) The Honda Civic diesel model (European to ww overseas market) that can easily get 56 mpg and it is FAR cheaper, etc, etc than the Prius and its own hybrid offering. In the year I considered them, the hybrid was app 7,500 more expensive than the gasser. In Europe anyway, the diesel carries a slight premium over a the poor selling Honda gasser- which at most I would swag, make the differential 6,500. You may want to google why names such as Honda Hybrid/Toyota Prius do not sell well at all in the European markets. Again it is hard to say what the US Honda Civic diesel model will get, as the system you cherish makes it finanically impossible bring them here. So if the Civic diesel gets 56 over my Civic gasser's 38, is 47% LESS better? Obviously if you say no, which indeed you have, your defacto stance is burning more is better than burning LESS, while vilifying the burning of more- which is what you are advocating folks do defacto anyway !!! Applying the gasser to diesel mpg ratios, IF the Prius had a diesel hybrid and got 47% better than your 47.8 +(gasser) mpg that is app 70 mpg. That might beg the question: why is the Prius with so called 50 mph being sold when a Prius with 70 mpg is... better? |
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Notice that to come to the conclusion he did (he's writing to consuming demographics and their sense and sensibiities) ; to push the "fairness" scenario, even he did not directly compare a Jetta diesel to a Prius hybrid, as the Prius is obviously and CLEARLY more costly ! So get some "Insight" if you believe the hybrid to diesel challenge is a WASH. link title My premise is still the same, in like models diesel burns LESS, gasser burns more. If the system WAS/IS really serious about compelling people, give the folks an IRS tax credit (7500 in the 04 MY) for folks to buy a hybrid a gasser price- like model. )
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jan 17, 2009 8:46 am) It is the diesel's turn to get the tax credits. VW, BMW and MB are all getting tax credits for their CLEAN diesel offerings. Though they were kind of chintzy due to the poorly conceived EPA mileage tests. A little is better than nothing. In the case of the BMW X5 and the GL/ML320 CDI the diesels are less than the comparable V8s. And the torque that provides driving pleasure is better than the V8s in all cases. Now with VW bringing the Touareg V6 TDI to all 50 states I will have 4 choices to pick from. It had to happen sooner or later. The EU could not keep us out of the diesel loop forever. With nothing to compare to diesel in the USA, it was a no brainer. Too bad the domestics have their heads in the sand. Notice since the Toyota and Honda tax credits are all gone they are having a tough time unloading their hybrids. Selling hybrids below invoice has to cut them deeply.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 17, 2009 9:22 am) lunch yesterday) and that is LOWER market fuel prices, diesel (per mile driven) percentage advantages do indeed lessen. But as I have mentioned in the past it is really a metric/barometer of how serious the system is about REAL fuel cuts rather than just INCREASING the fuel componet (per mile driven) cost. So for example 4 dollars per gal the American consumers and voters have LOUDLY made their preferences known. But leave it to the politicians to find "creative" ways to increase the per mile driven costs !!!! There is literally no question the system SERIOUSLY wants to increase the per mile driven cost ! One way they have decided to do it is to weave EVERY concept in the color GREEN. Upshot was: how long do you think fuel prices will remain LOW or sink lower? The other side of it of course is it makes a 15 year old SUV very cost effective to operate. The metric is whatever the monrhly payment of a Prius is (say 597.00 for 4 years: say . 2 per gal that gets me 4477 miles per mo!! or 53000 miles per year. We do far less than 1000 miles per month. SO, If I exceed the monthly fuel cost in the owned SUV it is time to get something cheaper. But it is weird to get a size 5 shoe when your need/want is really a size 15. So to me oxymoronically and counter intuitively, now is the time to buy diesels as fuel prices remain low (or sink lower) and the perceived advantages of diesel are called into question. |
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