- #7328 of 8143
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [gagrice]
by plekto
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Dec 30, 2008 (10:54 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 29, 2008 8:44 pm)
My main point wasn't that it is viable compared to Diesel so much as CNG would solve most of our nation's fuel problems if the government invested in it rather than some GM and Ford run pipe dream hybrids.
CNG is worlds cheaper to implement on a large scale compared to the other options. And it doesn't effect corn prices, either.
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- #7329 of 8143
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Natural Gas to diesel? [plekto]
by gagrice
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Dec 31, 2008 (6:44 am)
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 30, 2008 10:54 pm)
I agree with you on CNG. I am a big T. Boone fan also. When they get the pipeline built across Canada from Alaska we will have a very good source of Natural Gas to feed the Midwest. I think it is best used in buses, PU trucks and delivery trucks. It just takes up too much room in a small car. The tanks have a limited life span and are very expensive to replace. To me they are kind of like hybrids. If you put a lot of miles on a vehicle in a short time then they may be good options. There are fewer dealers for CNG in San Diego today than in 1993 when I was going to convert my PU truck. Our Gas Utility trucks where I worked in Alaska used LNG. They claimed it was safer than CNG. I know that Sempra just opened a large LNG facility across the border in Mexico. You should be able to get more range from smaller tanks with LNG. There is also the emerging GTL. Making super clean diesel from Natural Gas. Qatar has the worlds largest known reserve of Natural Gas with several GTL plants in different stages of development. Some exciting new developments going on.
http://www.qp.com.qa/qp.nsf/web/bc_new_projects_gtl
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- #7330 of 8143
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Refiners shifting their focus
by moparbad
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Dec 31, 2008 (12:08 pm)
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more diesel, less gasoline
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- #7331 of 8143
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Re: Refiners shifting their focus [moparbad]
by gagrice
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Dec 31, 2008 (1:24 pm)
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Replying to: moparbad (Dec 31, 2008 12:08 pm)
I guess I better get off my duff and buy a diesel SUV before diesel prices drop below gas.
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- #7332 of 8143
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Re: Natural Gas to diesel? [gagrice]
by plekto
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Dec 31, 2008 (11:52 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 31, 2008 6:44 am)
Any of the gasses or liquids in the same family would work, in theory. Yes, the tanks are a bit of a problem, but they are loads cheaper than a set of batteries to replace and with a purpose-built vehicle, the tanks wouldn't be a miserable kludge. Early electric vehicles were similar as well fi you remember, with their trunks filled with batteries and so on.
It just works. Pickens is a bit over the top, but we do have tons of the stuff that we could make and it's not going to use a drop of ethanol or foreign oil. And most people, if you could get 300-400 miles range, wouldn't care WHAT they fill the car with as long as it's cheap and quick.
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- #7333 of 8143
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Re: Natural Gas to diesel? [plekto]
by gagrice
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Jan 01, 2009 (5:29 am)
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 31, 2008 11:52 pm)
it's not going to use a drop of ethanol or foreign oil.
I think people would be surprised to know just how much natural gas is used in the growing of corn and processing ethanol. The main fertilizer used to grow corn anhydrous ammonia is made from natural gas. Natural gas is used to process the corn into ethanol. Of course a lot of diesel is used in the farming and transportation of ethanol. I have never figured out why we spend so much time experimenting with hydrogen cars when it takes as much natural gas to produce the hydrogen as it would to just power the car. The trick now is getting the massive amounts of Natural Gas out of the Arctic down to the people. It will decrease our trade deficit and benefit Alaska as well as the Midwest. As long as they do not waste it growing corn for ethanol.
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- #7334 of 8143
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Re: Natural Gas to diesel? [plekto]
by ruking1
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Jan 01, 2009 (8:25 am)
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 31, 2008 11:52 pm)
Being as how this is a diesel thread, just the Honda nat gas product shows how natural gas is even farther from implementation than diesel. Diesel only has a "small premium" compared to natural gas. The natural gas Civic costs 25,100 plus 1200 and installation costs: compared with a DX 16,205. The math indicates a min of 9,000 over a gasser. If you want that way cheaper home fuel ability you are talking more like 10,000 over. The nat gas EPA ratings are 24/36 vs 25/36 rug to pug.
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- #7335 of 8143
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by jimlockey
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Jan 01, 2009 (2:46 pm)
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The Dallas Transit System has been using natural gas for a while.
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- #7336 of 8143
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [plekto]
by houdini1
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Jan 02, 2009 (7:54 pm)
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 30, 2008 10:54 pm)
CNG is a great idea. I have often wondered why we don't take advantage of it. I remember a trip to Canada a few years ago and the cabs there could run on either cng or gasoline...dual systems. That could solve a lot of problems here. Fill up at home for most of your needs then buy gas or diesel when and if you needed it.
I do remember that they had problems running on cng at higher altitudes.
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- #7337 of 8143
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [houdini1]
by easym1
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Jan 02, 2009 (8:46 pm)
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Replying to: houdini1 (Jan 02, 2009 7:54 pm)
Both Canada and USA are rich in CNG but both countrie's car manufacturers don't seemed to notice this great potential.
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