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8143 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 12:10 PM
You are in the Diesels Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 29, 2008 5:47 am) **** Obviously the existing infrastructure has to be expanded. But every single municipality that uses CNG vehicles is required by law to sell the CNG to the public. So there almost always *is* a filling station in every major city. Los Angeles has several dozen. the Civic in question comes with a GPS pre-programmed with every station in the U.S. as well. http://www.cngprices.com/ That's a lot of stations, actually. It's small but is viable and isn't any more difficult to implement than propane, which is bought and sold darn near everywhere. Also, on range, CNG is a quick 5-6 minute fill at a station and you're good for 200-250 miles! At whatever speed a normal Civic will go. That's not even close to what you get with electrics. And there are never EVER any batteries to replace. And, this is basically a standard Civic that has been retrofitted. If the car was purpose-built, it could easily have a larger or second tank without any compromises. And a 400-500 mile range. The CNG Civic is a kludge and it still pummels most hybrids and electrics. Lastly, you can get a filling device in your own garage which essentially gives you $1 a "gallon"(equivalent) prices. It's more expensive than electric, but loads less than diesel or gas.
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 29, 2008 6:28 pm) |
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 29, 2008 6:28 pm) PS Take Interstate 10 across from AZ and you will find stretches as far as 360 miles between stations with prices as high today as $3.67 per gallon equivalent.
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 29, 2008 6:28 pm)  1 in every 4 fuel stations in 2002/2003 when I first considered the diesel ! It was then, and remains totally and utterly seamless to get fuel. The passenger CAR diesel fleet has actually decreased app - minus 33% from less than 3% to 2%. 92% of that 2% are mid sized light trucks. Math indicates app 406,560 passenger CAR diesel vehicles, (.0016% ) USA. So with a yearly sales of less than 2,000 CNG Civic's, how long would one suppose it would take to become 1,2,3,4,5% of the 254.1 M passenger vehicle fleet? Keep in mind that with the 1,000 on up installation of home fueling obviously gives a Civic (or any other for that matter) an almost no brainer advantage. While I tip my hat to Honda for doing alternative fuels such as diesel, CNG, if diesels are considered a niche market then CNG will probably stay less than that. So for example how many (cng) gas company vehicles actually run on CNG? CARB and the EPA are both concerned that the passenger diesel car population will have a "mauthusian growth rate" (graphic: multilpy like rabbits and NYC mice and rats)  Downstream, I have read that CNG is very dilutive of engine oil. So for example I run 20,000 mile OCI's gasser) with 10,000 mile OEM recommended. I have read in passing CNG folks do not go much over 5,000 miles OCI. |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 29, 2008 8:44 pm) CNG is worlds cheaper to implement on a large scale compared to the other options. And it doesn't effect corn prices, either. |
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 30, 2008 10:54 pm) http://www.qp.com.qa/qp.nsf/web/bc_new_projects_gtl
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more diesel, less gasoline
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Replying to: moparbad (Dec 31, 2008 12:08 pm) |
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 31, 2008 6:44 am) It just works. Pickens is a bit over the top, but we do have tons of the stuff that we could make and it's not going to use a drop of ethanol or foreign oil. And most people, if you could get 300-400 miles range, wouldn't care WHAT they fill the car with as long as it's cheap and quick.
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 31, 2008 11:52 pm) I think people would be surprised to know just how much natural gas is used in the growing of corn and processing ethanol. The main fertilizer used to grow corn anhydrous ammonia is made from natural gas. Natural gas is used to process the corn into ethanol. Of course a lot of diesel is used in the farming and transportation of ethanol. I have never figured out why we spend so much time experimenting with hydrogen cars when it takes as much natural gas to produce the hydrogen as it would to just power the car. The trick now is getting the massive amounts of Natural Gas out of the Arctic down to the people. It will decrease our trade deficit and benefit Alaska as well as the Midwest. As long as they do not waste it growing corn for ethanol. |
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