- #7313 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [gagrice]
by kcram HOST
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Dec 28, 2008 (7:04 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 28, 2008 7:14 am)
The new CARB mandate also includes language that includes trucks and buses that are registered in other states... in essence requiring any truck or bus that enters California to be "2010 legal". The obvious problem with this is, a vehicle is only required to meet the standards in effect in its (model) year of manufacture. You can be sure there will be plenty of lawsuits that will test the legality of retroactive enforcement such as this.
kcram - Pickups Host
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- #7314 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [kcram]
by ruking1
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Dec 28, 2008 (7:08 pm)
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Replying to: kcram (Dec 28, 2008 7:04 pm)
Let the games begin !!
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- #7315 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [kcram]
by gagrice
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Dec 28, 2008 (7:27 pm)
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Replying to: kcram (Dec 28, 2008 7:04 pm)
It looks to me like CARB has killed the new truck market in CA. If nothing will be legal but 2010 or later technology, is it even available today? CARB has never been able to enforce out of state emissions in the past. The state is bankrupt from all the foolish programs they have tried to push. I wonder how they plan to enforce inspection on every out of state truck. Not to mention the 1000s of trucks coming up from Mexico loaded with everything from Avocados to Suburbans. CA and their goofy emissions police will be a paper tiger.
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- #7316 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [gagrice]
by roland3
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Dec 28, 2008 (11:51 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 28, 2008 7:27 pm)
... There is really only one way to save California from vehicle emissions. Strong incentives for EV and battery development. Not turning the vehicle industry into (any further) a bureaucratic, mechanical, and financial nightmare. A voluntary, (with incentives), *exchange*, particulate filter, program might help in the interim.
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- #7317 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [roland3]
by plekto
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Dec 29, 2008 (12:20 am)
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Replying to: roland3 (Dec 28, 2008 11:51 pm)
And yet, there is a solution to all of this that is environmentally friendly, low-polluting, and that we have tons of. Plus, it doesn't cost billions to develop, because it already is here.
CNG.
My cousin's family has such a vehicle. It is cleaner than diesel, cheaper per mile, requires no fuel filters or additives or other idiocy, thumbs its nose at CARB, and we can make it or similar compounds artificially if the massive amounts that we have in the U.S. are ever exhausted. No corn gets taken from our markets, no toxic metals are required for energy storage, and no exotic components, either.
Oh - and the car, a CNG Civic, runs, stops, and starts exactly like a normal one. If we converted our gasoline vehicles over to CNG, we would pretty much solve the entire problem in one step. If you really want to get silly, you can always make a CNG hybrid, but the stuff burns so clean as it is, that it really seems pointless.
There. I just saved Obama a few billion dollars.
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- #7318 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [plekto]
by roland3
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Dec 29, 2008 (5:16 am)
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 29, 2008 12:20 am)
... I disagree. Most of the problems come from one bottom line. Combustion ! And then you have too many factions trying to control it or think they know what it is. Besides the infrastructure billions you are talking would be far better used for Electric Vehicles.
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- #7319 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [plekto]
by gagrice
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Dec 29, 2008 (5:47 am)
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Replying to: plekto (Dec 29, 2008 12:20 am)
I like CNG and EV. The problem with both is range. They are both going to be Commuter only vehicles. You would not be able to drive either one any distance without being stuck. There are many places here in the West and especially in the East that do not even have Natural Gas. There is no Natural Gas in my area and I live 2 miles from the center of town. Using PHILL is ideal for a home owner that has a good NG supply. CNG or EV is not practical for apartments, condos and street parkers. The real issue with CNG is the tank. It takes up a lot more room and needs expensive periodic inspections and maintenance. With less than 200 mile city range the Civic GX would be near impossible to use on a vacation. For some reason the GX is about $3k more than the Civic Hybrid and about $6k over the top of the line Civic EX. And at this time there are no practical EVs for sale in the USA.
I personally think the long term answer will be diesel burning fuel made from algae. One process already demonstrated that can produce 35k+ gallons per year on an acre of desert. Corn ethanol is about 18 gallons per acre. Palm diesel is about 600 gallons per acre.
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- #7320 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [gagrice]
by ruking1
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Dec 29, 2008 (8:08 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 29, 2008 5:47 am)
..."I personally think the long term answer will be diesel burning fuel made from"...
Your ALGAE example is an absolute slam dunk no brainer !!! This is probably why it has literally been ignored and actually vilified. Algae is literally one of the most abundant photosynthesis mechanism on the planet. There is almost no place that it will not grow !! One component of its life cycle (PLEASE PEOPLE GO BACK TO HIGH SCHOOL BIOLOGY or a gate program middle school biology class) IS C02 !!!!!! In addition to producing FOOD, ALGAE produces OXYGEN !!! It can also be adapted to work in sewer processing plants. So who ever sees an end to that process and service?
Also effective immediately, if the eco gestapo believes their own rhetoric, it should be R & D'd and adapted to ongoing "waste" producing processes '. So again, who ever sees an end to certain processes and services, i.e., food production.
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- #7321 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [gagrice]
by ruking1
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Dec 29, 2008 (11:43 am)
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 28, 2008 7:27 pm)
Indeed !!! How would they enforce 49 state legal passenger car entry? Exit!?
Enforcement is literally idiotic: in terms of the everyday practicality.
President Obama would put the kibosh on it toot sweet ! Keep in mind how many UNION folks it would idle if the fed were to limit ship entry/exit using bunker fuel (upwards of 5,000 ppm sulfur) ! The classic democratic manufacturing states have systematically(over generations) gotten rid of domestic manufacturing capability knowing that foreign produced goods would use these vehicles and logistics systems.
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- #7322 of 8129
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Re: Will CARB & EPA bankrupt the trucking industry? [gagrice]
by winter2
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Dec 29, 2008 (4:01 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Dec 28, 2008 5:44 pm)
What state are you in?
Are you talking about my mental health or where I live?
I live in the Peoples Republic of Maryland.
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