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8143 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 12:10 PM
You are in the Diesels Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: ruking1 (Dec 01, 2008 7:41 am) Honda i-DTEC
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Replying to: alltorque (Dec 01, 2008 8:28 am) My take is a combination of one respondents take: "Diesels are expensive, especially four valve, overhead cam, high pressure, direct injection, turbo inter cooler, diesels with a closed loop microcomputer control, cat converter and particulate filter. I think what you are seeing here is the peak of the ICEs. It is becoming more costly to continue to invent complicated tweaking for the ICE than it is to improve the battery and electric drive lines for BEVs. Once BEVs can attain a 70 mph speed for a 350 mile range and be recharged in 10 to 20 minutes, there will be little need for the ICE except for heavy hauling range extensions. " Actually hybrids and or electrical can cost far more, but IF the plug in electrical can have a range of say 300-500 miles (30 min recharge) a secondary or back up diesel engine would make a GREAT combination !!! You basically can run the diesel engine when you want/have to.
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About the only thing that Edmunds liked about this SUV was the improved mileage...and that was only 18/24. They did not like the transmission at all. Very sluggish with a big lag. Steering wheel like a bus, no feedback, and very sloppy. Suspension too soft with huge body roll. Firmer setting on the air suspension just made it jiggly and did not improve body roll. Very disappointing.
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Replying to: houdini1 (Dec 01, 2008 1:25 pm) |
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Replying to: ruking1 (Dec 01, 2008 8:42 am)
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Replying to: roland3 (Dec 02, 2008 9:36 am)  Be that as it may, an electrical/D2 alternative by ANY metric, meets the PRACTICAL definition of ALTERNATIVE FUEL !!!! ??????? But essentially I believe D2 (and the variants: bio diesel, etc.,) will be viable for at least the next generarion (30-40 years) . In the scheme of things, this time frame can be like almost FOREVER! Till then, D2 keeps the 20-40% fuel advantage (other things also) over RUG to PUG. |
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quote- Most of the world relies on diesel rather than gasoline for transportation fuel and heating demand. According to the International Energy Agency (IEA) the world consumed just 0.75 gallons of gasoline for every gallon of diesel in 2005, and the refinery system was configured to produce the two fuels in roughly the same proportion (https://customers.reuters.com/d/graphic s/FL_CNSP1208.gif). The U.S. petroleum economy is highly unusual in that it is tilted towards consumption and production of gasoline. The United States consumes almost two gallons of gasoline (1.97) for every gallon of diesel; the European Union consumes only 0.40 gallons and China consumes 0.48 gallons. Until recently, that led to a mutually beneficial trade, with the United States exporting surplus diesel, while Europe and China exported surplus gasoline (https://customers.reuters.com/d/graphic s/REFINEPRDS1208.htm). -end Bleak Outlook for US Refiners
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Replying to: moparbad (Dec 02, 2008 4:32 pm) As per EIA.gov figures 46% (of a barrel of oil 42 gals) are RUG to PUG (19.3 gals) and 23.4% is D2 (9.83 gals). link title So if you just let the car population be 23% diesel, you will STRUCTURALLY decrease RUG to PUG demand, ie import almost exponentially less barrels of oil. Simultaneously we need to let engines that are DESIGNED to burn bio diesel that will use the waste products generated by on going domestic manufacturing processes. Indeed algae shows enormous promise in generating both bio diesel and food and who knows what else. Algae also eats C02 and a by product is OXYGEN !!!!!
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Replying to: ruking1 (Dec 02, 2008 5:06 pm) You do realize that much of the exports are just oil coming in from Mexico that gets refined and shipped back to Mexico, right??? By now I suspect everyone has seen the following: http://www.usatoday.com/money/autos/2008-12-07-honda-diesel_N.htm So much for diesel cars making big inroads in America. There is also a one-year delay in a Valero hydrocracker project at Port Arthur, Texas. The hydrocracker would have made additional distillate/diesel. Add in all the other delays in refinery expansions and one can assume that the RUG/PUG to diesel spread will stay. AAA has RUG $1.698 - 54% cheaper PUG $1.868 - 41% cheaper Diesel $2.629
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Replying to: avalon02wh (Dec 09, 2008 4:41 am) So local prices snap shot D2 $2.39 RUG $1.71 PUG $1.99 When RUG to PUG users can somehow mitigate the 20-40% advantage D2 has, then RUG to PUG will be the deal !!! It is firmly entrenched that burning more IS better for the environment than burning less !!!! You are just spouting the party line. Till that time, I am ok with you ignoring the math. So given the differences, diesel burners remain in THE perfect storm. Mine is at 111,000 miles and rolling along. Indeed there is a much larger sizeable population (than diesel- diesel cars being less than 2%) of PUG users that pay more per mile driven. This really is almost totally ignored.
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