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8143 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 12:10 PM
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Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 25, 2008 2:27 pm) In the comparo between the Civic gasser and the Civic hybrid - with similar equipment - the hybrid wins easily... but that's a subject for a different forum. Now looking at the Jetta TDI vs Civic gasser vs Corolla gasser, sedans all? That huge differential in the price of the diesel vehicle and the higher price of the fuel requires a lot of driving annually. I probably do drive that much so the TDI may be more cost effective. Let's see. Using 'reported' results rather than the more conservative EPA values 2009 Corolla 39 Hwy 2008 Civic 38 Hwy 2009 Jetta TDI 43 Hwy ( 40 Edmunds / 45 PopMech ) Fuel usage/Cost based on 36000 miles annually 2009 Corolla..925 gal RUG  3.40......$3145 2008 Civic.....950 gal RUG 3.40......$3230 2009 TDI.......835 gal DF 3.90.........$3250 These all seem about equal since it's 36000 mi/yr. It's a nominal difference. The only difference then would be in the prices of the underlying vehicles and the relative resale values. However these are three of the best vehicles for holding value. Again it looks like a tossup based solely on preference not money. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 3:52 pm) One one level I do agree with this take, but on the other hand it is hard to realize your preference/s when the preference/s is/are hardly available. Again I cite 3% diesel passenger vehicle fleet. The majority of those diesels are on platforms that I do not have a current use for. Another is why do I really want to get a MB 320 TDI when what I really NEED a Civic TDI for everyday commuting? Or why do you want to commute in a FORD F250 when a Ford Fiesta does just fine solely because both are gassers? You would think it so preposterous if it were a a choice between a gasser MB 320 and a Civic !   And thanks for further illustrating my point about the so called "Prius" gasser only equivalents. Toyota really downplays the reality in this. So yes, my Prius alternative is the Civic. While it is true I do not routinely get 45 mpg in the Civic (as the Prius) , it does get 38-42 and costs app 13,000 LESS.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 3:52 pm) 2009 Corolla, 2745# + 300# test weight = 3045# likewise, 2008 Civic, 2630+300=2930# 2009 TDI, 3230+300=3530# 2009 Prius 2932+300 = 3232# 2009 Corolla, TFC/IW = 1/(39*3045)= 0.842e-5 gal/mi/pound 2008 Civic, TFC/IW = 1/(38*2930)= 0.898e-5 gal/mi/pound 2009 TDI, TFC/IW = 1/(43*3530)= 0.659e-5 gal/mi/pound 2009 Prius TFC/IW = 1/(44*3232)= 0.703e-5 gal/mi/pound Smaller number is better. TDI and Prius are really the same efficiency since there is 10% more energy in diesel fuel. Factor that out, they're the same. The gassers need 20-28% (call it 25%) more fuel energy to do the same amount of work as the diesel and the hybrid. Inefficient. Hey, I have a furnace with 92% heat-to-energy efficiency, and compact flourescent bulbs that are four times as efficient at converting energy to light as incandescent, why should I not also be concerned with the work-to-energy efficiency of my vehicle? 25% is a big difference. Civic and Corolla are out of consideration.
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Replying to: 104wb (Sep 25, 2008 5:45 pm) Looks like the hot ticket is to drive a fully-loaded class 8 truck (80,000 lbs) that gets 7 mpg. That'd be roughly 3.7 times better than the TDI. Next stop -- freight trains.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 25, 2008 3:59 pm) At that time I looked only at the hatchbacks. Under similar circumstances today only the Prius and the SportWagon would be under consideration. However being basically cheap in regards to transportation if I was in the market today I'd look first to find a good USED hatchback like a $14000 - $15000 Prius for the best combo of utility and fuel economy. |
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Replying to: cdnpinhead (Sep 26, 2008 4:49 am)  
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Check the date of this article. Not to mention the speeds and mileage achieved. Over four years ago and( I still can't buy this car!!!) Honda Diesel Sets New World Records Date: May 07, 2004 18:07 Submitted by: Jeff Source: Honda UK PR Credibility Rating: N/A Honda’s new Accord 2.2 i-CTDi Sport has this week set no fewer than 19 world speed records and achieved 3.07 litres / 100 km (92 imperial mpg, ~76.6 US mpg) fuel economy to boot. British racing driver Robin Liddell and freelance journalist Iain Robertson were part of the European record-setting team. Amongst the speed records set, which were all achieved in Production Car Class B (2000 – 2500 cc), were 133.04 mph (1 mile flying start), 84.25 mph (1 mile standing start) and an average speed of 130.38 mph over a 24-hour endurance period. These records were all set at Papenburg high-speed oval test track in north-west Germany on 1 and 2 May, and are all subject to FIA ratification. Two production cars, randomly selected by FIA officials, were used to undertake the speed records, and apart from the fitting of roll-cages, racing harnesses and radio equipment for track-to-pits communication, no other modifications were made to the cars. Following the speed record attempts, the same two cars were then driven 419 miles from Papenburg test track to Wiesbaden, near Frankfurt in order to complete the fuel economy run. The route comprised of a mixture of motorway and non-motorway driving, during which one of the Accords achieved a staggering 92 imperial mpg (US mpg=~76.6) average. GO FIGURE!!
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Replying to: dworthen (Sep 26, 2008 6:44 am) But it's going to be pricey and unfortunately hidden away in Honda's closet, IOW its Acura stores.
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 2:25 pm) I really think you are spot on in this assessment. Toyota will be STILL be behind; as they were when they came out with the T100. Cummins is doing a plant upgrade (I posted I think a long while back) as they are coming out witha 150/1500 series V8 diesel engine !! 300 to 350 hp and something like 475-575 # ft of torque!? Woo HOO for those that want/ need this platform/product ! It would also be a hoot if they could get this pp into a larger sedan type vehicle. It could be a top notched platform, especially if it could pull down 35 mpg and/or better !
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 26, 2008 10:34 am) on multiple types of alternative fuels. I could name 20 different feedstocks and more. If I leave out coal oil, "we don't have much of that, do we!" All the rest are renewable. With a near zero CO2 footprint. What you exhaust to the air is mostly absorbed by the plants that you get your next gallon of fuel from. Diesels ability to use alternative fuels is the single largest factor, why you can't buy a 2008 diesel accord!!! What am I going to do with all that dino oil. Follow the money!!! Nature's key to survival is diversity. Conservation and diversity is our key!!!
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