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8427 messages, Last post on Mar 16, 2010 at 2:11 PM
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 1:43 pm) First, they did not say anything about the details of the highway portion of the drive including what the speed was. I just watched a mpg comparison on Top Gear where they compared a Prius and a BMW M3. Ten laps around a test track. As far as speed goes, the two finished the ten laps neck and neck. The BMW got 19 mpg and the Prius got 17 mpg. Much more real world. Second, taking the actual two cars tested, the Prius cost 4 to 5 thousand more including the tax credit. There was a reason the Prius was loaded....they all come that way these days. In the real world there would also probably be a hefty added profit sticker on the Prius. That price difference would buy a lot of diesel. Third, even in this test the Prius was no fun to drive, especially with a hyper miler at the wheel ! Larsb is right. Big win for the Jetta.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 1:31 pm) link title If your thesis is correct, Toyota messed up royally and big time. In any case the llight truck market remains. It is probably still  40% of the vehicle fleet and as you say stagnant in new light truck sales. If I were needing a large truck, a turbo diesel would be almost required and a no brainer at the very least. When I went to the local Toyota showroom to see the Tundra, I truly was surprised how HUGE it really is. It is GREAT for those that want/need that size and platform. As such a lot of light truck users see the Tundra as good but is edged out by GM/Ford products. link title
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Replying to: houdini1 (Sep 25, 2008 1:56 pm) Sorry this is an incorrect statement. Also you omitted to mention that they compared the Jetta DSG Sedan to the Prius hatchback. Now do the same pricing comparo using the Jetta DSG SportWagon to the hatchback. The pricing benefit in favor of the Jetta all but disappears. As I noted the comparo gives a good presentation for a prospective buyer. If sporty driving is what rings your bell then the Jetta is the better choice. If saving fuel, utility, having a lower total cost after 10 yrs and peace of mind is more important then the Prius is a better choice. There was no hypermiler behind the wheel of that vehicle. I can take any good operating vehicle in the US and beat those results by 10% easily. A real hypermiler can double that percentage. I driven too many miles over the last 25 yrs ( 30000 to 50000 annually ) to care anything about 'sportiness'. But that's my personal choice. I recognize other choices are just as valid. Both are good options.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 25, 2008 2:31 pm) It's now on hold indefinitely. The A-BAT (code name) unibody truck will get the attention and the development monies if the sourcing quotes make sense. If fuel continues the way its going Toyota's view then there may be no rebound in BOF trucks. We were wined and dined, but only after listening to a parade of top scientists and researchers tell us, in unsparing detail, how the planet is running out of oil and water; how the biofuels we look to as potential replacements for oil aren't worth the power and water it takes to make 'em, and how we now are consuming 40 percent more resources each year than the planet can sustain. A new smaller highly-fuel-efficient I4 gasser with a hybrid option may gain more sales ( profits ) than pursuing a more efficient huge BOF monster.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 3:18 pm) Toyota ought to just get them one or two heavy duty diesel Tundras and leave the gasser trucks to other folks.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 3:05 pm) Indeed for example, the closer comparos would be Jettas TDI/gasser . Civic gasser/hybrid/TDI. Prius' gasser/hybrid. . Toyota has wisely stayed away from Prius' direct gasser/hybrid comparo's as the premium is really not worth the so called "advantages". So for example between a Toyota Corolla TDI/gasser- a no brainer is the TDI! Civic gasser/hybrid comparos, history says the Civic Hybrid BOMBED !!! This is despite the fact it is a very good hybrid! and car. Lots of reasons, but the major one is Civic had a gasser to compare it against. Prius as I have indicated did/does NOT. Given your 30,000 to 50,000 miles per year would you rather get 38 mpg or 56 mpg with a (1,000) premium ? The BE is easily less than the first year (given your mileage) It is 1,316 gals vs 893 gals= 423 gals x 4=$1,692. The 03 Jetta TDI premium over the 1.8T was $246. as I remembered. The fuel mileage was 50 mpg vs 30 mpg. Over 25,000 miles for 4 years consumption was 1000 gals vs 3333 gals. I would guess in your cost effectiveness thinking, burning 3333 gals when 2,000 gals will do; makes economic sense. To boot the 1.8T requires premium. 
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Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 25, 2008 3:27 pm) It's comparing the "highest mileage diesel 5-passenger sedan" to the "highest mileage hybrid 5-passenger sedan" and in that regard, it is right on the money to compare them.
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 3:46 pm) As an aside, the Honda Civic gasser gets 38-42 mpg and holds 4/5 folks. I'd be ungrateful if I didn't say I was happy with it. But I got to tell you, I would be tickled pink with a Honda Civic TDI with 52-56 mpg! |
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Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 25, 2008 3:27 pm) In the comparo between the Civic gasser and the Civic hybrid - with similar equipment - the hybrid wins easily... but that's a subject for a different forum. Now looking at the Jetta TDI vs Civic gasser vs Corolla gasser, sedans all? That huge differential in the price of the diesel vehicle and the higher price of the fuel requires a lot of driving annually. I probably do drive that much so the TDI may be more cost effective. Let's see. Using 'reported' results rather than the more conservative EPA values 2009 Corolla 39 Hwy 2008 Civic 38 Hwy 2009 Jetta TDI 43 Hwy ( 40 Edmunds / 45 PopMech ) Fuel usage/Cost based on 36000 miles annually 2009 Corolla..925 gal RUG 3.40......$3145 2008 Civic.....950 gal RUG 3.40......$3230 2009 TDI.......835 gal DF 3.90.........$3250 These all seem about equal since it's 36000 mi/yr. It's a nominal difference. The only difference then would be in the prices of the underlying vehicles and the relative resale values. However these are three of the best vehicles for holding value. Again it looks like a tossup based solely on preference not money. |
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 4:52 pm) One one level I do agree with this take, but on the other hand it is hard to realize your preference/s when the preference/s is/are hardly available. Again I cite 3% diesel passenger vehicle fleet. The majority of those diesels are on platforms that I do not have a current use for. Another is why do I really want to get a MB 320 TDI when what I really NEED a Civic TDI for everyday commuting? Or why do you want to commute in a FORD F250 when a Ford Fiesta does just fine solely because both are gassers? You would think it so preposterous if it were a a choice between a gasser MB 320 and a Civic !  And thanks for further illustrating my point about the so called "Prius" gasser only equivalents. Toyota really downplays the reality in this. So yes, my Prius alternative is the Civic. While it is true I do not routinely get 45 mpg in the Civic (as the Prius) , it does get 38-42 and costs app 13,000 LESS.
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