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8143 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 12:10 PM
You are in the Diesels Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 24, 2008 1:20 pm) Now all I need is for someone beside VW to bring in their diesels.
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Replying to: bobgwtw (Sep 24, 2008 4:51 pm) A Cummins Diesel is really the Cadillac of American Turbo Diesels.
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Jetta beats Prius Results (238 Highway Miles) Jetta: 45.4 MPG /// Prius: 44.8 MPG Since the Prius so handily whipped the Jetta in the city, we were hoping the highway portion might provide a closer test result. And over the exact same route at the exact same speeds and under the same conditions, it appears America has a surprising new fuel-economy champ. The Bottom Line It appears clear, no matter what the driving conditions, that the Toyota Prius will return around 44 mpg—if driven with a sane right foot. That's impressive, and that means the Prius remains the most fuel-efficient car on the market. The Jetta falls short in pure city driving, but it does meet (and barely beats) the Prius when it comes to highway fuel economy in our testing. The price of fuel, of course, remains a big factor. On our test days, regular unleaded was $3.79 a gallon and diesel was $4.09. So on the city drive, which approximated a week's worth of stop-and-go commuting, the Jetta required about $10 more fuel to do the same job. Over a year, that would equate to about $500 if fuel prices stabilize. Granted, that's a big "if," and 500 bucks ain't nothing with an economy like ours. But the Jetta is eligible for a $1300 "Advanced Lean Burn Technology Motor Vehicle federal income tax credit," and $1300 buys a lot of diesel. Looked at another way, $1300 reduces the Jetta TDi's $22,640 base price to $21,340 if you include the destination charge. The base price of the 2008 Toyota Prius, by comparison, is $22,660. So on those terms, the Prius becomes $1320 more expensive than the new Jetta. Surprisingly enough, the Prius is not eligible for this tax credit, although Toyota may be gearing up for that fight. But tax credits aside, when it comes down to which of these two popular efficient cars is more fun and more comfortable to drive everyday, it's an easy pick: We like the Jetta TDi, and the fuel-economy numbers in the real world for VW's new player make it—gasp!—a legit Prius fighter. To be fair to the Prius, though, it actually averaged 44.7 MPG during the test and the Jetta only 38.7. So for losing 6 mpg you can have a more sporty car which is more likely break down (based on historical information on both cars) and will cost more to fuel. (you knew I could not get out without adding a little CON-Tro-VER-Sy !!!)
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 9:29 am) Another valid question (but probably off topic) would be why is one even driving in those environments, when there are plenty of other options as advocated by you and at least some others?. As politically correct and sophisticated as the likes of NYC are, they have taken FAR too long (just) APPROVING the implemention of Prius (hybrid) taxi cabs into the 18,000 (+plus) taxi cab fleet. Why do you need a Ford Crown Victoria V8 idling most of the day in NYC traffic vs a tiny 4 banger Prius that is shut off when sitting in traffic? Moving on, if you do more of highway, etc diesels have HUGE edges, in that there are not as many stop and go situations in THAT environment to name one. Suffice to say, diesels are better adapted to the USA highway system than almost any like model gasser, hybrid,battery and/or combination.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 24, 2008 4:57 pm)
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Replying to: larsb (Sep 25, 2008 9:29 am) Similar costs Similar size One is sportier than the other Similar FE on the Highways One has better City FE One has a much better reputation for reliability, dependability As you noted this appraisal gives both groups of drivers a fair presentation in order to choose which characteristic is more important in choosing a new vehicle. Next up..Gen 3 Prius vs the new TDI.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 25, 2008 10:46 am) Well, on this particular test, the difference in hwy mileages between the Jetta TDI and the Prius was a whopping 0.6 MPG so, I don't know if that would be considered a HUGE edge..... 
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 12:43 pm) First, they did not say anything about the details of the highway portion of the drive including what the speed was. I just watched a mpg comparison on Top Gear where they compared a Prius and a BMW M3. Ten laps around a test track. As far as speed goes, the two finished the ten laps neck and neck. The BMW got 19 mpg and the Prius got 17 mpg. Much more real world. Second, taking the actual two cars tested, the Prius cost 4 to 5 thousand more including the tax credit. There was a reason the Prius was loaded....they all come that way these days. In the real world there would also probably be a hefty added profit sticker on the Prius. That price difference would buy a lot of diesel. Third, even in this test the Prius was no fun to drive, especially with a hyper miler at the wheel ! Larsb is right. Big win for the Jetta.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 25, 2008 12:31 pm) link title If your thesis is correct, Toyota messed up royally and big time. In any case the llight truck market remains. It is probably still  40% of the vehicle fleet and as you say stagnant in new light truck sales. If I were needing a large truck, a turbo diesel would be almost required and a no brainer at the very least. When I went to the local Toyota showroom to see the Tundra, I truly was surprised how HUGE it really is. It is GREAT for those that want/need that size and platform. As such a lot of light truck users see the Tundra as good but is edged out by GM/Ford products. link title
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Replying to: houdini1 (Sep 25, 2008 12:56 pm) Sorry this is an incorrect statement. Also you omitted to mention that they compared the Jetta DSG Sedan to the Prius hatchback. Now do the same pricing comparo using the Jetta DSG SportWagon to the hatchback. The pricing benefit in favor of the Jetta all but disappears. As I noted the comparo gives a good presentation for a prospective buyer. If sporty driving is what rings your bell then the Jetta is the better choice. If saving fuel, utility, having a lower total cost after 10 yrs and peace of mind is more important then the Prius is a better choice. There was no hypermiler behind the wheel of that vehicle. I can take any good operating vehicle in the US and beat those results by 10% easily. A real hypermiler can double that percentage. I driven too many miles over the last 25 yrs ( 30000 to 50000 annually ) to care anything about 'sportiness'. But that's my personal choice. I recognize other choices are just as valid. Both are good options.
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