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8147 messages, Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 8:22 PM
You are in the Diesels Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: yesdiesel1 (Sep 23, 2008 2:31 pm) |
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Replying to: altair4 (Sep 24, 2008 2:58 am) I say good for them. I wish all 50 states adopted CARB standards. It would make for cleaner air for everyone instead of just the lucky few. |
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Replying to: altair4 (Sep 24, 2008 2:58 am)
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Replying to: altair4 (Sep 24, 2008 2:58 am) Tier2Bin5 'better' than EuroVI? No, just different. Bin5 is more stringent on NOx, less stringent on PM. The differences are enough to keep most of the clean diesels out of the US. See graph in post 6717. I grew up in the Appalachians in the 70s when cars were operating in the biggest box in that graph, and NOx / acid rain was destroying lakes and trees where I lived. The differences between bin5 and EuroVI are insignificant compared to what we had back then. The US should adopt Euro emissions at the same time Europe does so we can benefit from the 40% reduced fuel consumption that diesels offer.
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Replying to: hypnosis44 (Sep 24, 2008 8:31 am) Connecticut, D.C., Delaware, Maine, Maryland, New Hampshire, New Jersey, New York, Ohio, Pennsylvania, Texas.
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Replying to: altair4 (Sep 24, 2008 9:25 am) Suffice to say the rules and regulations keep the the passenger diesel population low. |
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Replying to: 104wb (Sep 24, 2008 9:23 am) Tier2Bin5 'better' than EuroVI? No, just different. Bin5 is more stringent on NOx, less stringent on PM. The differences are enough to keep most of the clean diesels out of the US. See graph in post 6717. I grew up in the Appalachians in the 70s when cars were operating in the biggest box in that graph, and NOx / acid rain was destroying lakes and trees where I lived. The differences between bin5 and EuroVI are insignificant compared to what we had back then. The US should adopt Euro emissions at the same time Europe does so we can benefit from the 40% reduced fuel consumption that diesels offer. Good accurate data here. However from a business model perspective it doesn't make much sense to invest in new clean diesel technology at this time today. 40% is about the maximum fuel economy benefit that can be expected by driving a diesel over a gasser. However... ..there is a 5-15% premium in the cost of production and sales price of the vehicle; ..there is a 5-15% loss of efficiency due to the emissions controls as you noted; ..there is a 10-20% premium to pay for the fuel. In the best case scenario that 40% fuel economy benefit is reduced to 20% but in the worst case there is a 10% penalty for buying, driving, fueling a diesel over a gasser. It appears to be at best breakeven at this time. Improving the existing gasser technology seems the less expensive/less risky route for the automakers in NA.
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Replying to: kdhspyder (Sep 24, 2008 11:48 am) So why are we even making noise about less fuel consumption and less foreign oil dependency when most folks subscribe to the attitude you have outlined?   I'd be the first to day that 38-42 mpg on a Honda Civic gasser is probably better than 80-98% of the vehicle fleet . But at the same time 48-52 mpg on a TDI ain't bad for a "fuel guzzler"  You will probably agree: the key is we are not REALLY serious about less fuel consumption and less foreign oil dependency!
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Replying to: ruking1 (Sep 24, 2008 11:57 am) Now that you brought up hybrids that IS a route that vehicle makers can take in NA to both save fuel, reduce dependency on foreign oil and make a profit. The new Honda Insight  $18000-$19000 will be a smashing success in this regard IMO. The Gen 3 Prius will gain 50% more sales annually than the Gen 2. The midsized auto segment is about to explode with offerings from GM, Ford and Hyundai along with the Toyotas and Nissans now being offered Profits can be made here...and fuel saved. |
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An interesting pair of charts I stumbled across at EIA.DOE.gov.. Maybe it's well-known to some but it was new to me. What goes into the price of Gasoline vs the price of Diesel .............................Gas............. Diesel Taxes.................... 11% ............ 11% Dist & Marketing.... 10% ............ 14% Refining................... 6% ............ 11% Crude Oil............... 73% ............ 64%
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