- #6205 of 8147
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Re: ... Are We all Drinking CARB Cool-Aid ??? [alltorque]
by ruking1
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Jun 28, 2008 (6:37 am)
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Replying to: alltorque (Jun 28, 2008 6:07 am)
Well if your post is any example, it is easy to see that EPA/CARB (states) CONSISTENTLY has said and will continue to say :
1. that higher emissions are better than LOWER emissions!!!! (250 is better ( aka LESS than) 204, etc)
2. They also say that burning a min of 2x to higher dirtier fuel (RUG to Pug 30 ppm) is better than burning cleaner fuel (ULSD 15 ppm to ZERO)
2b. They make the dirtier fuel (RUG to PUG 30 ppm) CHEAPER per gal to boot !!!
3. They also say why burn less less (50 mpg) when MORE will do (30 mpg) !!!
( we have been saying this stuff ALL ALONG !!!!! Now we know at least one reason why K-12 US schools impart such wonderful mathematics awareness in the USA general populations.)
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- #6206 of 8147
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2009 Jetta TDI
by brakvica
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Jun 28, 2008 (10:56 am)
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Replying to: shipo (May 07, 2008 8:36 am)
besides the fact that the Jetta is getting not great gas mileage; and the fact that diesel is 30% more expesnive than gasoline (which wipes out what little benefit you are getting from the 29/40 gas mileage)...
the real issue is that the Jetta is being built in the Pueblo, Mexico factory which means it will be plauged with the same quality problems as the rest of the VWs that come from Mexico
there is NO cost ebenfit to buying this hunk of junk
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- #6207 of 8147
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Re: 2009 Jetta TDI [brakvica]
by elias
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Jun 28, 2008 (11:03 am)
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Replying to: brakvica (Jun 28, 2008 10:56 am)
from what I understand , the quality of vehicles built in mexico often exceeds that resulting from european manufacturing and that has been the case for some particular model years for VW.
half of my 4 Un-Clean TDIs (03, 05, 06, 06) were built in mexico and they are awesome with regard to quality. New Beetle had a couple of tough months as dealer searched for a water leak, but that was the only annoying reliability issue.
So all those VWs have been reliable, but I have not driven one past 100K yet.
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- #6208 of 8147
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Re: 2009 Jetta TDI [brakvica]
by gagrice
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Jun 28, 2008 (12:25 pm)
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Replying to: brakvica (Jun 28, 2008 10:56 am)
What in the Jetta Sportwagon TDI class would you recommend that is rated 40 MPG out on the highway? I don't see any vehicle even close. Room for 5 adults and 30+ cubic feet of luggage. My GM vehicles built in Mexico were better than the ones from Detroit.
Today in CA diesel is only 7% higher than regular unleaded. Not sure where you are at. You can check here and see the difference. That makes the VW TDI are real bargain. The TDI gets 25% better hwy mileage than the premium burning gas Sportwagon. With premium about the same as diesel, it is advantage diesel big time.
If you have not owned a VW TDI in the last few years you should do yourself a favor and try one. The competition will seem so blah after you do.. I have and want another one.
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- #6209 of 8147
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Re: 2009 Jetta TDI [gagrice]
by jkinzel
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Jun 28, 2008 (12:48 pm)
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 28, 2008 12:25 pm)
Diesel is $4.97, RUG is $4.53 at our store on the island. I didn't look in town.
$4.53 for RUG plus 35% = $6.11. Diesel would have to be $6.11 a gallon to make the same value as RUG at $4.53
Gary, why did you send all this heat up here? It's 1:45 PM and 82 degrees outside, I'm dying. My guess it will be close to 90 by 5:00
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- #6210 of 8147
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Re: 2009 Jetta TDI [jkinzel]
by gagrice
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Jun 28, 2008 (2:31 pm)
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Replying to: jkinzel (Jun 28, 2008 12:48 pm)
I wondered where our 90 degrees went to. The weather guys said it should be that warm here today and it barely made it to 80. Hope you enjoy it. At least you can take a dip in the Sound, eh? Our local Shell is still at $4.65 for RUG and $4.99 for diesel. I would be tickled pink if my Sequoia got 25 MPG on diesel. I have only driven it once in 2 weeks. It sits all shiny in the garage. I drive my old beater Ranger PU. It gets 16 MPG. Big whoopee.... I should not think about it as I get soooo upset with our ignorant regulators and government.
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- #6211 of 8147
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Re: ... Are We all Drinking CARB Cool-Aid ??? [highmiler650]
by kcram HOST
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Jun 28, 2008 (5:19 pm)
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Replying to: highmiler650 (Jun 27, 2008 4:39 pm)
You'll never see 30s out of a full-size pickup. The vehicle configuration won't allow it. You're talking about a 5000+ pound vehicle with an open bed that is intended for (and thanks to fuel prices will primarily be used for) load hauling and towing. The "consumers" will no longer be buying full-size pickup trucks the way they did just a year ago, let alone the last decade. Instead, it'll be back to the 70s and 80s "when trucks wuz trucks" and the people who bought them did so knowing the shortcomings because they actually wanted/needed one.
kcram - Pickups Host
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- #6212 of 8147
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Re: ... Are We all Drinking CARB Cool-Aid ??? [kcram]
by jkinzel
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Jun 28, 2008 (6:08 pm)
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Replying to: kcram (Jun 28, 2008 5:19 pm)
The "consumers" will no longer be buying full-size pickup trucks the way they did just a year ago,
I will give you that to a point. I will give you a 50% drop is the average suburb guy buying a full size pick-up. He goes from a F-150 to a Ranger. Let’s put a 2.5L or a 3.0L diesel in a Ranger. I know you can get 35 + MPG out of that. Still plenty of power and good MPG. And it won’t be rocket science either, they are all over the world except…..yep, you guessed right, the USA.
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- #6213 of 8147
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Re: 2009 Jetta TDI [brakvica]
by ruking1
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Jun 29, 2008 (9:58 am)
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Replying to: brakvica (Jun 28, 2008 10:56 am)
VW Jetta gets 29/40. 08 Honda Civic gets 26/34. So by your definition, one of the best (gasser) economy cars is 10.3% to 15% worse than the diesel (obviously not like model, look to VW for a like model gasser) Keep in mind the torque on the diesel is almost 49% better (mine are 155# ft vs 110# ft or 29% better)
So at 4.91 D2 and 4.53 RUG /29/40, 26/40 =
D2 range per mile driven of 16.9 cents-12.3 cents
RUG range per mile driven of 17.4 cents-13.3 cents or 2.88% to 7.5% MORE.
I am ok with others paying more!
No issues with the Mexican built Jetta after 108,000 miles. Of course both are in a longer mileage race to a min of 450,000 miles and hopefully to 1,000,000 miles.
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- #6214 of 8147
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Re: ... Are We all Drinking CARB Cool-Aid ??? [kcram]
by ruking1
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Jun 29, 2008 (10:13 am)
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Replying to: kcram (Jun 28, 2008 5:19 pm)
Uisng 16 mpg (RUG) and 25 mpg (D2) as samples, A diesel Toyota Tundra 25 mpg would literally be a 36% increase!! So if the goal is to DECREASE fuel consumption, this would be a HUGE step in the right direction, unless of course the real goal is to get P/U trucks, etc, etc, OFF the roads. My take is there will always be a core of folks who will have those needs/wants and will pay the freight accordingly. Indeed the SUV population is 12% and probably shrinking- clearly a minority position getting... SMALLER!! If I had need/want for one to more of those segments, 36% better mpg would be an absolute NO brainer. Those that do not want to buy diesel can and do buy gasser. All they have to do is offer good (diesel) products folks want to buy. Diesels longevity, better drive ability etc would be added advantages. Diesel p/u, suv's, minivans, etc trucks would literally revolutionize these segments. Perhaps that is one strong reason why the logistics system is resisting the change to D2.
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