Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Pickups Diesels Diesels in the News
8145 messages, Last post on Dec 04, 2009 at 7:13 AM
You are in the Diesels Forum. Your Host is kcram
|
|
|---|---|
|
Replying to: hypnosis44 (Jun 22, 2008 9:22 pm) It is unfortunate that when I post "...Most people will not limit themselves to just the VW models. Annual fuel costs for the Jetta diesel is $2132 the Pirus is $1328."..." The response is "Your figures are greatly exagerated for like mileage" They are not my figures, for one. Second the spread is large enough that if you get a bit more mpg in the diesel when compared to the EPA figures the Prius is still way ahead. I talked to a new owner of a Prius the other day. With only 2K on the car he has already seen 50 on the highway and 45 in town. Which is mileage that only the VW Jetta TDI is supposed to make.  My favorite of course is the 20 to 40% rule. Diesels always get at least that much more than RUG. Yet when you bring up the fact that diesel is currently 70 cents more than RUG for the national average, you get the response, well it will get better. OK, when diesel is within about 25 cents, we can talk. But the reality is that as of now the extra cost for a diesel plus the higher per gallon cost wipes out much if not all the advantage. Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3518 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 15 city 20 hwy $3599 Regular |
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 23, 2008 3:23 am) Not sure your point. You are comparing apples to oranges. Kind of like comparing a Porsche 911 to a Yugo. If you just want to compare MPG the Honda CRX HF was a great little fuel miser. Plus you could drive it on a windy or winding highway with out getting blown off the road with the smallest of wind gusts. I think most would concede the Prius is good city commuter car. It is not the all round vehicle that the Jetta is. Have you spent much time behind the wheel of a VW TDI in the last 5 years? Having driven both there is NO comparison. My 05 Passat Wagon was roomier, more comfortable, solid built and far far better handling under all conditions. With the Jeep you also fudged a bit. You compared the 6 cylinder diesel to the 6 cylinder gas GC. That is hardly a good comparison. The diesel engine in the GC has more torque than the 5.7 L V8 engine. The diesel engine gets 25% better mileage than the V8 using the EPA ratings. Current West Coast diesel $4.85 RUG $4.45 (CA is only 38 cents apart) Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3637 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 15 city 20 hwy $4450 Regular With the premium of just $1010 for the diesel engine which includes a larger battery, alternator & fuel tank. It will only take 1.24 years to pay off the diesel premium. Find a hybrid that will do that. Just for the record. The people reporting the ACTUAL mileage on the EPA website for the GC diesel paid off the premium in less than a year. All reporting got better than the Estimate from EPA. The gap between diesel and RUG as of 6/16/08 for the US was 61 cents. I imagine that will be closer today when they post. The 70 cent gap is for the East Coast.
|
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 23, 2008 3:23 am) The response is "Your figures are greatly exaggerated for like mileage" They are not my figures, for one. Second the spread is large enough that if you get a bit more mpg in the diesel when compared to the EPA figures the Prius is still way ahead. "... The actual response: "Your figures are greatly exagerated for like mileage and say 50 mpg. So at 4.91 D2, 4.53 RUG= 434 gals, =293 gals, that is 21,700 miles vs 14,650 miles. 7050 miles more with diesel. If you like to pay more to get less?... They are truly your nickels"... It is interesting how you spin the spin even as you ignore the mathematics done in the same post. Indeed they are not my figures EITHER, I just did the math given the $'s claimed which YOU cited, cost as per YOUR example, if like mpg was your point !! Yet you still cling to your exaggerated results !! When I called you on it, you tell me they are not your figures, yet still ignore the math and continue to spin your mistaken notion. You are entitled to your opinion. However the facts and figures (from your own cited example) do not back up your exaggerated assertions. You are in effect saying 494 gals = 293 gals!!! If I heard that at a cocktail party, I would just move on!..... |
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Jun 23, 2008 4:58 am) Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3637 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 15 city 20 hwy $4450 Regular It should have read: Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3637 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 13 city 19 hwy $4450 Regular V8 5.7L |
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 23, 2008 3:23 am)  Oh wait....  It's not.
|
|
|
Replying to: bristol2 (Jun 23, 2008 7:47 am)  1% ethanol. Imagine now that being 10% which is the dilution rate that is frequently touted. It is also noteworthy that almost NONE are converting diesel trucking and mass transportation to gasser ethanol, despite being .38 cents more (spread) Indeed why no E85 to E100 Prius? May a reason be 25% less fuel mileage? So if a Prius gets 50 mpg, 25% less =37.5 mpg. My gasser Civic gets between 38-42 mpg. The Prius at the time was double the cost. Lets see $13,436/4.51 per gal =2979 gals or (*38=)113,208 miles of commuting. It is numbers like these that make it overwhelmingly obvious why the food chain REALLY is pro gasser. ( anti diesel).
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 23, 2008 3:23 am) The non sequiter responses from a couple of folks are the most entertaining. My friend with the two year old Prius is consistently getting 45mpg city. My friend with the used TDI is still recovering from thousands in fuel system repairs and maintenance. She still likes the car, uses bio-diesel mix, and believes she is helping the environment. She gets 45mpg highway - and far less in the city. She walks/runs to most places.
|
|
|
Replying to: hypnosis44 (Jun 23, 2008 9:09 am) An inference or conclusion that does not follow from the premises or evidence. A statement that does not follow logically from what preceded it. Actually what was non sequitur was the original "don't blame me"conclusion of the quote of the quote. in msg# 6170. Was it terrible the numbers upset the illusion? So while the pew # was similar, the church was entirely different.  I still am not sure why the Prius/TDI adversarial relationship continues. Latest flash on CNBC, the USA has HUGE reserves of other than light sweet crude. The problem is the MOST US refineries are geared to refining light sweet crude. Seems like an upcoming trend will be refined (from light sweet crude ) RUG to PUG will come from INDIA!!!! Not a good time or situation to be a 98% plus RUG to PUG consumer when there is a HUGE abundance of refine able diesel fuel!!! (from other than light sweet crude- and up to 40% cheaper per barrel) |
|
|
Replying to: hypnosis44 (Jun 23, 2008 9:09 am) One of the biggest mistakes with a VW TDI is babying it. They like to be wrung out now and then to blow the soot out. If the car is from another state it could be buildup of very dirty diesel. If it was run on dirty diesel then she started using biodiesel mix she flushed some of the crap into the injectors. Biodiesel is an excellent solvent. Keeping a clean fuel filter is essential. With so few VW TDI vehicles in CA it is hard to find a dealer with a mechanic that is competent to repair and advise the owner. Fuel Filters When first using biodiesel it is recommended to replace the fuel filter on your engine. Because of the solvent properties in Biodiesel, it may cause the release of accumulated deposits inside the fuel tank and fuel lines from years of diesel-fuel use. These deposits can flow down the fuel line and may plug the fuel filter. Luckily, most of the time the filter's don't plug all at once, but slowly, causing slight hesitations in engine acceleration, missing (cylinder's not all firing), or other sluggish behavior.
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Jun 23, 2008 10:45 am) We can thank the USA regulatory agencies. The major mistake was not requiring diesel ( D2 specifically) sold in this country for as a min of the last generation (30-40 years) to be ULSD.(to have coincided with the switch from leaded to unleaded RUG to PUG and subsequent lowering to 30 ppm sulfur) So if one bought a diesel before the October 2006 time (delayed cut over to ULSD) frame (with an ultimate 20 year full implementation time) , the most widely form of diesel available was LSD or 500 ppm (or CA 140ppm) This means/meant that one was in effect destined to run a less than optimium fuel, with the inherent problems and issues. This of course played right into the "dirty diesel" scenario/mantra, even as the combination was no dirtier than a Ford Taurus/Honda Accord/Toyota Camry. The real hidden secret which is SLOWLY getting out is that bio diesel not only is cleaner than electric cars and renewable vs non renewable Prius fuel, but consumes C02 in part of the cycle but can be adapted to use waste from ongoing and to be developed processes vs NON for the hybrid Prius. Indeed the extra batteries have been stated by Toyota as being more consumptive in the total life cycle than even SUV's. Another secret hidden in plain sight that is getting out is RUG to PUG is a min of 2 x dirtier than D2 30 ppm (vs 15 ppm) So how would it sit with all you RUG to PUG users to now get it as clean as ULSD to bio diesel? Would stricter regulations and 10-15 cents per gal more for RUG to PUG be in the cards? Goverments have not been inattentive, as the % of revenues has decline with the higher RUG to PUG per gal prices and they will likely be looking to increase both the % and vol of taxation. The decrease (however slight) in mileage has SEVERELY impacted government/s revenues also. 98% of gasser users could give a DARN about this, but another internal truth is ULSD to bio diesel burns FAR cleaner than RUG to PUG. I can run a normal 25,000 mile OCI. So does a 3-5,000 mile OCI use more/less oil than a 25,000 mile OCI?? |
|
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
