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8140 messages, Last post on Nov 24, 2009 at 11:09 AM
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Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 22, 2008 6:15 am) And I would not exclude YOU. If for some reason you felt left out.  Even as you advocate( the vastly higher % of vehicles) using dirtier and more expensive RUG to PUG (30 ppm vs ULSD 15 ppm, B100 approaches ZERO ppm, but you know that and its been said on this thread MORE than once) ..." guess CARB is doing a good job. "... You might want to re read msg #6149 and Gagrice's before about LA LA's air pollution. Not according to your own quote ...“Over 9.4 million seniors and 20.6 million children live in counties with unhealthful short-term levels of particle pollution. Nearly 2.6 million people with chronic bronchitis and 1.1 million with emphysema live in counties with unhealthful levels of short-term particle pollution. " American Lung Association STATE OF THE AIR 2008 "... ...Most people will not limit themselves to just the VW models. Annual fuel costs for the Jetta diesel is $2132 the Pirus is $1328."... Your figures are greatly exagerated for like mileage and  say 50 mpg. So at 4.91 D2, 4.53 RUG= 434 gals, =293 gals, that is 21,700 miles vs 14,650 miles. 7050 miles more with diesel. If you like to pay more to get less?... They are truly your nickels. "I am a bit curious to see how far the next Honda hybrid or Toyota hybrid leaps past the current generation. They could be diesel killers. "... I seriously considered a 04 Prius. Toyota Corolla trumps the Prius (I actually chose a 04 Civic) . A Toyota Corolla diesel trumps even that. It might be why Toyota doesn't sell its Corolla diesels here. (it trumps BOTH and you get more commute value for even less money) Or most likely NOT! |
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Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 22, 2008 6:15 am) I am sure you know that is NOT true. The warranty can only be voided if the fuel is proven to cause a problem. Many people in Hawaii are driving VW and MB diesels on B100. The popular vehicles for many being the E320 CDI and the VW Beetle TDI.. There is a rental agency in Hawaii that rents VW Beetle Diesels running on B100. Good quality B100 is far superior to ULSD. The one downside is gelling at low temperatures. That is not a problem for me as I don't plan to go anywhere cold ever again. http://www.bio-beetle.com/biodieselrentalcarsfaqs.htm Here is a list of companies running their fleets on B100: http://www.sqbiofuels.com/community.htm If B100 is good enough for Willie Nelson, it is good enough for me... http://www.autobloggreen.com/tag/Willie+Nelson/ Compare Willie Nelson's Carbon Footprint to some of the so called green stars like Madonna....
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 22, 2008 7:04 am) ... Seems like Al Gore has a long way to go to catch up (aka get down) to even YOUR carbon foot print!  Pretty telling when the proponent doesn't do the very things he advocates. Or we can perhaps take the Avalon02wh view, AL Gore's carbon foot print could be WAY MORE if he didn't advocate less than $25,000 per month electrical use.  It would be way easier for me to do less than $75 per mo if they: 1. stop raising the price 2. let me get off the grid 3. let me sell power to the grid 4. fed, state, loca, l tax CREDITS 5. fed, state, local, tax write offs 6. profit from selling power to the grid. Most people know this, but the power food chain fights this tooth and nail.
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Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 22, 2008 7:15 am) Three if's, 1. Average yearly mileage of 12,000 to 15,000 miles 2. majority of trips are 50 miles or less 3. plug in electrical range of up to 250 miles 3a. in effect, the electrical range (250 miles as a practical target for a bunch of practical reasons) is the linchpin to turning the now primary fuel (D2 in this example and in keeping on topic) into SECONDARY fuel. ( or customer's choice, of course) 3b. D2 nexus is unchanged in relation to RUG to PUG 20-40% better. Bio diesel either as a primary or secondary fuel source/s has/have better emission patterns than electric cars, let alone RUG to PUG emissions. Then Combined with a 700 mile range ( 50 mpg with 14.5 gal D2 tank) You can have a 950 mile range effective fuel mpg of 68 mpg! But it can be WAY better than that if the majority of trips are less than 50 miles. Indeed most of the mileage can now be FREE (see above). 14.5 gals would now be within the realm of lasting all year or 12,000 to 15,000 miles. (aka 1,071 fuel miles per gal) As I have said this potential and proposal are HUGE HUGE HUGE problems for regulators and the RUG to PUG food chain. There has never been nor will ever be a REAL FUEL shortage !!! Is there a real fuel shortage? Absolutely!! It can have catastrophic world wide propotions. However it is a series of choices and NOT a a series of inevitablities |
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The "GOOD " NEWS WAS this was projected late 2007: ..."According to MSNBC "December sales are expected to fall around 4 percent, which would bring the full-year total for U.S. auto sales to 16.1 million vehicles, the lowest volume since 1998.""... link title Now for the bad news: "American auto sales are projected to fall year-over-year by about 1 million to 15 million vehicles in 2008," link title |
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Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 22, 2008 6:15 am) Flat earth responses not withstanding, thanks for the thoughtful and intelligent post.
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Replying to: hypnosis44 (Jun 22, 2008 9:22 pm) It is unfortunate that when I post "...Most people will not limit themselves to just the VW models. Annual fuel costs for the Jetta diesel is $2132 the Pirus is $1328."..." The response is "Your figures are greatly exagerated for like mileage" They are not my figures, for one. Second the spread is large enough that if you get a bit more mpg in the diesel when compared to the EPA figures the Prius is still way ahead. I talked to a new owner of a Prius the other day. With only 2K on the car he has already seen 50 on the highway and 45 in town. Which is mileage that only the VW Jetta TDI is supposed to make.  My favorite of course is the 20 to 40% rule. Diesels always get at least that much more than RUG. Yet when you bring up the fact that diesel is currently 70 cents more than RUG for the national average, you get the response, well it will get better. OK, when diesel is within about 25 cents, we can talk. But the reality is that as of now the extra cost for a diesel plus the higher per gallon cost wipes out much if not all the advantage. Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3518 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 15 city 20 hwy $3599 Regular |
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Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 23, 2008 3:23 am) Not sure your point. You are comparing apples to oranges. Kind of like comparing a Porsche 911 to a Yugo. If you just want to compare MPG the Honda CRX HF was a great little fuel miser. Plus you could drive it on a windy or winding highway with out getting blown off the road with the smallest of wind gusts. I think most would concede the Prius is good city commuter car. It is not the all round vehicle that the Jetta is. Have you spent much time behind the wheel of a VW TDI in the last 5 years? Having driven both there is NO comparison. My 05 Passat Wagon was roomier, more comfortable, solid built and far far better handling under all conditions. With the Jeep you also fudged a bit. You compared the 6 cylinder diesel to the 6 cylinder gas GC. That is hardly a good comparison. The diesel engine in the GC has more torque than the 5.7 L V8 engine. The diesel engine gets 25% better mileage than the V8 using the EPA ratings. Current West Coast diesel $4.85 RUG $4.45 (CA is only 38 cents apart) Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3637 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 15 city 20 hwy $4450 Regular With the premium of just $1010 for the diesel engine which includes a larger battery, alternator & fuel tank. It will only take 1.24 years to pay off the diesel premium. Find a hybrid that will do that. Just for the record. The people reporting the ACTUAL mileage on the EPA website for the GC diesel paid off the premium in less than a year. All reporting got better than the Estimate from EPA. The gap between diesel and RUG as of 6/16/08 for the US was 61 cents. I imagine that will be closer today when they post. The 70 cent gap is for the East Coast.
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Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 23, 2008 3:23 am) The response is "Your figures are greatly exaggerated for like mileage" They are not my figures, for one. Second the spread is large enough that if you get a bit more mpg in the diesel when compared to the EPA figures the Prius is still way ahead. "... The actual response: "Your figures are greatly exagerated for like mileage and say 50 mpg. So at 4.91 D2, 4.53 RUG= 434 gals, =293 gals, that is 21,700 miles vs 14,650 miles. 7050 miles more with diesel. If you like to pay more to get less?... They are truly your nickels"... It is interesting how you spin the spin even as you ignore the mathematics done in the same post. Indeed they are not my figures EITHER, I just did the math given the $'s claimed which YOU cited, cost as per YOUR example, if like mpg was your point !! Yet you still cling to your exaggerated results !! When I called you on it, you tell me they are not your figures, yet still ignore the math and continue to spin your mistaken notion. You are entitled to your opinion. However the facts and figures (from your own cited example) do not back up your exaggerated assertions. You are in effect saying 494 gals = 293 gals!!! If I heard that at a cocktail party, I would just move on!..... |
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Replying to: gagrice (Jun 23, 2008 4:58 am) Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3637 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 15 city 20 hwy $4450 Regular It should have read: Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3637 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 13 city 19 hwy $4450 Regular V8 5.7L |
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