Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Pickups Diesels Diesels in the News
8143 messages, Last post on Nov 27, 2009 at 12:10 PM
You are in the Diesels Forum. Your Host is kcram
| Just talking to my neighbor across the fence. He filled his truck this afternoon and the price was down 30 cents a gallon from yesterday. Maybe just in time for all the new diesel vehicles coming on the market. That would give them a boost in sales. Make it harder for me to get a real deal. | |
|
|
|
Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 20, 2008 8:49 am) And that is a good thing. Some of us care about what other people breath. “Over 9.4 million seniors and 20.6 million children live in counties with unhealthful short-term levels of particle pollution. Nearly 2.6 million people with chronic bronchitis and 1.1 million with emphysema live in counties with unhealthful levels of short-term particle pollution. " American Lung Association STATE OF THE AIR 2008 “Indeed the passenger diesel car fleet has gone down 33% and voile, the air pollution has actually gone UP!!! “ First, what source are you using and over what time frame? There are many reasons for air pollution levels to change – economic activity and populations changes just to name two. “Air pollution continued to challenge the nation in 2004, 2005, and 2006. Some cities—notably Los Angeles and Houston—managed to steadily cut ozone and particle pollution. Progress stalled in many other cities, however, slowing or eroding gains recorded earlier in the decade.” American Lung Association STATE OF THE AIR 2008 I guess CARB is doing a good job.  “This is of course with the best sales/population of hybrids ever!!!” If it were not for the hybrids the pollution levels would be worse. I will remind you that the Prius emits 4.0 tons of CO2 per year to the 6.4 tons for the 09 Jetta Diesel Auto. “More than ever before D2 is the fuel for at least the next generation if not two generations!! (30-60 years- biblically 40-80 years)” That remains to be seen. You need to look at this from a global perspective. The massive buildup in Asia and the Middle East will require a lot of diesel. We do not know how much oil is out there and at what cost to produce, so predicting even 10 years out is a WAG. “less consumption, diesel is 20-40% better than like model RUG to PUG..” Most people will not limit themselves to just the VW models. Annual fuel costs for the Jetta diesel is $2132 the Pirus is $1328. “biodiesel has less emissions than electric cars, the acknowledge "holy grail" of environmental correctness” Not if the electric cars are powered by wind or solar generated electricity. http://www.cleantechblog.com/2008/06/turbo-diesels-take-on-hybrids.html “Forget putting B100 biodiesel in these new engines with common rail and very high pressure injection. Don’t think about home brewed vegetable oil or recycled restaurant grease. Even B20 voids the warranty in the U.S., although not in Europe where biodiesel quality is better. B5 is the limit in the U.S.” This is the first I heard that you cannot run better than B5. I'm sure the memo is around here someplace. Any thoughts on that? I am a bit curious to see how far the next Honda hybrid or Toyota hybrid leaps past the current generation. They could be diesel killers. 
|
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 22, 2008 6:15 am) And I would not exclude YOU. If for some reason you felt left out.  Even as you advocate( the vastly higher % of vehicles) using dirtier and more expensive RUG to PUG (30 ppm vs ULSD 15 ppm, B100 approaches ZERO ppm, but you know that and its been said on this thread MORE than once) ..." guess CARB is doing a good job. "... You might want to re read msg #6149 and Gagrice's before about LA LA's air pollution. Not according to your own quote ...“Over 9.4 million seniors and 20.6 million children live in counties with unhealthful short-term levels of particle pollution. Nearly 2.6 million people with chronic bronchitis and 1.1 million with emphysema live in counties with unhealthful levels of short-term particle pollution. " American Lung Association STATE OF THE AIR 2008 "... ...Most people will not limit themselves to just the VW models. Annual fuel costs for the Jetta diesel is $2132 the Pirus is $1328."... Your figures are greatly exagerated for like mileage and  say 50 mpg. So at 4.91 D2, 4.53 RUG= 434 gals, =293 gals, that is 21,700 miles vs 14,650 miles. 7050 miles more with diesel. If you like to pay more to get less?... They are truly your nickels. "I am a bit curious to see how far the next Honda hybrid or Toyota hybrid leaps past the current generation. They could be diesel killers. "... I seriously considered a 04 Prius. Toyota Corolla trumps the Prius (I actually chose a 04 Civic) . A Toyota Corolla diesel trumps even that. It might be why Toyota doesn't sell its Corolla diesels here. (it trumps BOTH and you get more commute value for even less money) Or most likely NOT! |
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 22, 2008 6:15 am) I am sure you know that is NOT true. The warranty can only be voided if the fuel is proven to cause a problem. Many people in Hawaii are driving VW and MB diesels on B100. The popular vehicles for many being the E320 CDI and the VW Beetle TDI.. There is a rental agency in Hawaii that rents VW Beetle Diesels running on B100. Good quality B100 is far superior to ULSD. The one downside is gelling at low temperatures. That is not a problem for me as I don't plan to go anywhere cold ever again. http://www.bio-beetle.com/biodieselrentalcarsfaqs.htm Here is a list of companies running their fleets on B100: http://www.sqbiofuels.com/community.htm If B100 is good enough for Willie Nelson, it is good enough for me... http://www.autobloggreen.com/tag/Willie+Nelson/ Compare Willie Nelson's Carbon Footprint to some of the so called green stars like Madonna....
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Jun 22, 2008 7:04 am) ... Seems like Al Gore has a long way to go to catch up (aka get down) to even YOUR carbon foot print!  Pretty telling when the proponent doesn't do the very things he advocates. Or we can perhaps take the Avalon02wh view, AL Gore's carbon foot print could be WAY MORE if he didn't advocate less than $25,000 per month electrical use.  It would be way easier for me to do less than $75 per mo if they: 1. stop raising the price 2. let me get off the grid 3. let me sell power to the grid 4. fed, state, loca, l tax CREDITS 5. fed, state, local, tax write offs 6. profit from selling power to the grid. Most people know this, but the power food chain fights this tooth and nail.
|
|
|
Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 22, 2008 7:15 am) Three if's, 1. Average yearly mileage of 12,000 to 15,000 miles 2. majority of trips are 50 miles or less 3. plug in electrical range of up to 250 miles 3a. in effect, the electrical range (250 miles as a practical target for a bunch of practical reasons) is the linchpin to turning the now primary fuel (D2 in this example and in keeping on topic) into SECONDARY fuel. ( or customer's choice, of course) 3b. D2 nexus is unchanged in relation to RUG to PUG 20-40% better. Bio diesel either as a primary or secondary fuel source/s has/have better emission patterns than electric cars, let alone RUG to PUG emissions. Then Combined with a 700 mile range ( 50 mpg with 14.5 gal D2 tank) You can have a 950 mile range effective fuel mpg of 68 mpg! But it can be WAY better than that if the majority of trips are less than 50 miles. Indeed most of the mileage can now be FREE (see above). 14.5 gals would now be within the realm of lasting all year or 12,000 to 15,000 miles. (aka 1,071 fuel miles per gal) As I have said this potential and proposal are HUGE HUGE HUGE problems for regulators and the RUG to PUG food chain. There has never been nor will ever be a REAL FUEL shortage !!! Is there a real fuel shortage? Absolutely!! It can have catastrophic world wide propotions. However it is a series of choices and NOT a a series of inevitablities |
|
|
The "GOOD " NEWS WAS this was projected late 2007: ..."According to MSNBC "December sales are expected to fall around 4 percent, which would bring the full-year total for U.S. auto sales to 16.1 million vehicles, the lowest volume since 1998.""... link title Now for the bad news: "American auto sales are projected to fall year-over-year by about 1 million to 15 million vehicles in 2008," link title |
|
|
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 22, 2008 6:15 am) Flat earth responses not withstanding, thanks for the thoughtful and intelligent post.
|
|
|
|
|
Replying to: hypnosis44 (Jun 22, 2008 9:22 pm) It is unfortunate that when I post "...Most people will not limit themselves to just the VW models. Annual fuel costs for the Jetta diesel is $2132 the Pirus is $1328."..." The response is "Your figures are greatly exagerated for like mileage" They are not my figures, for one. Second the spread is large enough that if you get a bit more mpg in the diesel when compared to the EPA figures the Prius is still way ahead. I talked to a new owner of a Prius the other day. With only 2K on the car he has already seen 50 on the highway and 45 in town. Which is mileage that only the VW Jetta TDI is supposed to make. My favorite of course is the 20 to 40% rule. Diesels always get at least that much more than RUG. Yet when you bring up the fact that diesel is currently 70 cents more than RUG for the national average, you get the response, well it will get better. OK, when diesel is within about 25 cents, we can talk. But the reality is that as of now the extra cost for a diesel plus the higher per gallon cost wipes out much if not all the advantage. Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3518 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 15 city 20 hwy $3599 Regular |
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 23, 2008 3:23 am) Not sure your point. You are comparing apples to oranges. Kind of like comparing a Porsche 911 to a Yugo. If you just want to compare MPG the Honda CRX HF was a great little fuel miser. Plus you could drive it on a windy or winding highway with out getting blown off the road with the smallest of wind gusts. I think most would concede the Prius is good city commuter car. It is not the all round vehicle that the Jetta is. Have you spent much time behind the wheel of a VW TDI in the last 5 years? Having driven both there is NO comparison. My 05 Passat Wagon was roomier, more comfortable, solid built and far far better handling under all conditions. With the Jeep you also fudged a bit. You compared the 6 cylinder diesel to the 6 cylinder gas GC. That is hardly a good comparison. The diesel engine in the GC has more torque than the 5.7 L V8 engine. The diesel engine gets 25% better mileage than the V8 using the EPA ratings. Current West Coast diesel $4.85 RUG $4.45 (CA is only 38 cents apart) Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 18 city 23 hwy $3637 diesel Jeep Grand Cherokee 2WD 15 city 20 hwy $4450 Regular With the premium of just $1010 for the diesel engine which includes a larger battery, alternator & fuel tank. It will only take 1.24 years to pay off the diesel premium. Find a hybrid that will do that. Just for the record. The people reporting the ACTUAL mileage on the EPA website for the GC diesel paid off the premium in less than a year. All reporting got better than the Estimate from EPA. The gap between diesel and RUG as of 6/16/08 for the US was 61 cents. I imagine that will be closer today when they post. The 70 cent gap is for the East Coast.
|
|
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
