Edmunds.com | Inside Line | Auto Observer Your Account | Help | Directory
You are here:
![[F]](http://a332.g.akamai.net/f/332/936/12h/www.edmunds.com/media/townhall/webxicons/site.gif){kind=small}
Forums
Pickups Diesels Diesels in the News
8133 messages, Last post on Nov 09, 2009 at 9:32 AM
You are in the Diesels Forum. Your Host is kcram
|
Replying to: kcram (Jun 20, 2008 9:59 am)  It looked to be 20 years old.  The BIGGEST milestone change has been going from LSD 500 ppm-140 ppm) to ULSD (15 ppm or less) since Oct 2006. The point has been made that change should have been done a minimum of 30 years ago. So we have at least 30 years of "mitigated" unmitigated regulation. However LSD and above is still being used AND by law. Bunker oil is still being used on ships/military ships for example. (INXS of 5000 ppm) The real questions, were all of them swapped out to the latest diesel engines or are they grand fathered till they die? For example (all) mass transs/school buses have not undergone (new) diesel retro fits. Essentially the "upgrades" have been to run the ULSD, for optimization to be sure!! This is to limit equipment damage costs ! TILL that time, there are still a lot of older type (unmitigated) diesels in the mix. You and I would probably agree burning ULSD IS FAR better than LSD and above. Let me use the 2003 TDI for example, I ran the majority of miles on LSD while it had/has been designed for a LONG time to be run on ULSD. It would be a no brainer to say that my pollution has dropped 97% just on the switch. (500 ppm to 15 ppm or less) So rather than be applauded for MASSIVE decreases, they are vilified for being less than clean. Indeed these points have been made in past posts. Still the majority of what causes the REAL pollution is regulated/mitigated, to be unmitigated; sort of a " yes we HAVE no banana's today" !! Indeed a total no brainer now is RUG to PUG (30 ppm) is 2x DIRTIER than ULSD (30 ppm vs 15 ppm). Compared to bio diesel (5-ZERO ppm), RUG to PUG is essentially exponentially (6x) to off the charts dirtier !! So how much more a gal would it cost to get RUG to PUG at parity to ULSD!!!?? This is potentially explosive especially in today's high per gal RUG to PUG prices. |
|
|
Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 20, 2008 9:22 am) About 10 days ago the wife and I looked at the new (gas version) VW Spotswagon and even the (anti station wagon) wife was impressed. She kind of feels like you do, old people’s car. I don’t have the heart or the guts to tell her the car is now “age appropriate”.  We did not get to take a really good look by sitting in it, etc. as they were getting it ready for a customer to take a test drive, but if it comes in about $25k to $27K it might be well worth waiting for. |
|
|
Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 20, 2008 9:22 am) I am just the opposite. I was about 14 when the 1957 Chevy Nomad came out. I was hooked on wagons and have liked them better than sedans ever since. I don't think I have ever bought a sedan. Unless you count the 78 Honda Accord hatchback a sedan. I am more of a utility vehicle type and the SUV or wagon fits my desire to be able to haul stuff. Looks like I will have several diesel options over the next 12 months. |
|
| Just talking to my neighbor across the fence. He filled his truck this afternoon and the price was down 30 cents a gallon from yesterday. Maybe just in time for all the new diesel vehicles coming on the market. That would give them a boost in sales. Make it harder for me to get a real deal. | |
|
|
|
Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 20, 2008 8:49 am) And that is a good thing. Some of us care about what other people breath. “Over 9.4 million seniors and 20.6 million children live in counties with unhealthful short-term levels of particle pollution. Nearly 2.6 million people with chronic bronchitis and 1.1 million with emphysema live in counties with unhealthful levels of short-term particle pollution. " American Lung Association STATE OF THE AIR 2008 “Indeed the passenger diesel car fleet has gone down 33% and voile, the air pollution has actually gone UP!!! “ First, what source are you using and over what time frame? There are many reasons for air pollution levels to change – economic activity and populations changes just to name two. “Air pollution continued to challenge the nation in 2004, 2005, and 2006. Some cities—notably Los Angeles and Houston—managed to steadily cut ozone and particle pollution. Progress stalled in many other cities, however, slowing or eroding gains recorded earlier in the decade.” American Lung Association STATE OF THE AIR 2008 I guess CARB is doing a good job.  “This is of course with the best sales/population of hybrids ever!!!” If it were not for the hybrids the pollution levels would be worse. I will remind you that the Prius emits 4.0 tons of CO2 per year to the 6.4 tons for the 09 Jetta Diesel Auto. “More than ever before D2 is the fuel for at least the next generation if not two generations!! (30-60 years- biblically 40-80 years)” That remains to be seen. You need to look at this from a global perspective. The massive buildup in Asia and the Middle East will require a lot of diesel. We do not know how much oil is out there and at what cost to produce, so predicting even 10 years out is a WAG. “less consumption, diesel is 20-40% better than like model RUG to PUG..” Most people will not limit themselves to just the VW models. Annual fuel costs for the Jetta diesel is $2132 the Pirus is $1328. “biodiesel has less emissions than electric cars, the acknowledge "holy grail" of environmental correctness” Not if the electric cars are powered by wind or solar generated electricity. http://www.cleantechblog.com/2008/06/turbo-diesels-take-on-hybrids.html “Forget putting B100 biodiesel in these new engines with common rail and very high pressure injection. Don’t think about home brewed vegetable oil or recycled restaurant grease. Even B20 voids the warranty in the U.S., although not in Europe where biodiesel quality is better. B5 is the limit in the U.S.” This is the first I heard that you cannot run better than B5. I'm sure the memo is around here someplace. Any thoughts on that? I am a bit curious to see how far the next Honda hybrid or Toyota hybrid leaps past the current generation. They could be diesel killers.
|
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 22, 2008 6:15 am) And I would not exclude YOU. If for some reason you felt left out.  Even as you advocate( the vastly higher % of vehicles) using dirtier and more expensive RUG to PUG (30 ppm vs ULSD 15 ppm, B100 approaches ZERO ppm, but you know that and its been said on this thread MORE than once) ..." guess CARB is doing a good job. "... You might want to re read msg #6149 and Gagrice's before about LA LA's air pollution. Not according to your own quote ...“Over 9.4 million seniors and 20.6 million children live in counties with unhealthful short-term levels of particle pollution. Nearly 2.6 million people with chronic bronchitis and 1.1 million with emphysema live in counties with unhealthful levels of short-term particle pollution. " American Lung Association STATE OF THE AIR 2008 "... ...Most people will not limit themselves to just the VW models. Annual fuel costs for the Jetta diesel is $2132 the Pirus is $1328."... Your figures are greatly exagerated for like mileage and  say 50 mpg. So at 4.91 D2, 4.53 RUG= 434 gals, =293 gals, that is 21,700 miles vs 14,650 miles. 7050 miles more with diesel. If you like to pay more to get less?... They are truly your nickels. "I am a bit curious to see how far the next Honda hybrid or Toyota hybrid leaps past the current generation. They could be diesel killers. "... I seriously considered a 04 Prius. Toyota Corolla trumps the Prius (I actually chose a 04 Civic) . A Toyota Corolla diesel trumps even that. It might be why Toyota doesn't sell its Corolla diesels here. (it trumps BOTH and you get more commute value for even less money) Or most likely NOT! |
|
|
Replying to: avalon02wh (Jun 22, 2008 6:15 am) I am sure you know that is NOT true. The warranty can only be voided if the fuel is proven to cause a problem. Many people in Hawaii are driving VW and MB diesels on B100. The popular vehicles for many being the E320 CDI and the VW Beetle TDI.. There is a rental agency in Hawaii that rents VW Beetle Diesels running on B100. Good quality B100 is far superior to ULSD. The one downside is gelling at low temperatures. That is not a problem for me as I don't plan to go anywhere cold ever again. http://www.bio-beetle.com/biodieselrentalcarsfaqs.htm Here is a list of companies running their fleets on B100: http://www.sqbiofuels.com/community.htm If B100 is good enough for Willie Nelson, it is good enough for me... http://www.autobloggreen.com/tag/Willie+Nelson/ Compare Willie Nelson's Carbon Footprint to some of the so called green stars like Madonna....
|
|
|
Replying to: gagrice (Jun 22, 2008 7:04 am) ... Seems like Al Gore has a long way to go to catch up (aka get down) to even YOUR carbon foot print!  Pretty telling when the proponent doesn't do the very things he advocates. Or we can perhaps take the Avalon02wh view, AL Gore's carbon foot print could be WAY MORE if he didn't advocate less than $25,000 per month electrical use. It would be way easier for me to do less than $75 per mo if they: 1. stop raising the price 2. let me get off the grid 3. let me sell power to the grid 4. fed, state, loca, l tax CREDITS 5. fed, state, local, tax write offs 6. profit from selling power to the grid. Most people know this, but the power food chain fights this tooth and nail.
|
|
|
Replying to: ruking1 (Jun 22, 2008 7:15 am) Three if's, 1. Average yearly mileage of 12,000 to 15,000 miles 2. majority of trips are 50 miles or less 3. plug in electrical range of up to 250 miles 3a. in effect, the electrical range (250 miles as a practical target for a bunch of practical reasons) is the linchpin to turning the now primary fuel (D2 in this example and in keeping on topic) into SECONDARY fuel. ( or customer's choice, of course) 3b. D2 nexus is unchanged in relation to RUG to PUG 20-40% better. Bio diesel either as a primary or secondary fuel source/s has/have better emission patterns than electric cars, let alone RUG to PUG emissions. Then Combined with a 700 mile range ( 50 mpg with 14.5 gal D2 tank) You can have a 950 mile range effective fuel mpg of 68 mpg! But it can be WAY better than that if the majority of trips are less than 50 miles. Indeed most of the mileage can now be FREE (see above). 14.5 gals would now be within the realm of lasting all year or 12,000 to 15,000 miles. (aka 1,071 fuel miles per gal) As I have said this potential and proposal are HUGE HUGE HUGE problems for regulators and the RUG to PUG food chain. There has never been nor will ever be a REAL FUEL shortage !!! Is there a real fuel shortage? Absolutely!! It can have catastrophic world wide propotions. However it is a series of choices and NOT a a series of inevitablities |
|
|
The "GOOD " NEWS WAS this was projected late 2007: ..."According to MSNBC "December sales are expected to fall around 4 percent, which would bring the full-year total for U.S. auto sales to 16.1 million vehicles, the lowest volume since 1998.""... link title Now for the bad news: "American auto sales are projected to fall year-over-year by about 1 million to 15 million vehicles in 2008," link title |
|
New? Join Now!
Forum Tools
Search Forums
Browse by Vehicle
Browse by Board
Browse by Topic
Today's Chats
