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5512 messages, Last post on May 08, 2008 at 7:52 AM
You are in the Diesels Forum. Your Host is kcram
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Replying to: larsb (May 07, 2008 8:57 am) Did you see my eatlier post on the Jetta Sportwagon? More functionality than a prius, 40+ mpg in city, 50+ on highway, meets CARB regs for 50 states. Available late this year.
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Replying to: bristol2 (May 07, 2008 9:51 am) For Shipo. There is a HUGE difference in torque between a 2.0 L diesel and gas engine. When traveling on a hill at 70 MPH in high gear the RPMs depending on the vehicle will be in the 2200 range. A gas engine at that RPM has very little torque. So it down shifts and kicks up to an RPM range that it has some power for pulling a hill. My example of the Passat Diesel with the 2.0 L engine does not down shift at 70+ MPH pulling the grades we have in East San Diego county. Diesel engines are just superior liter per liter for that kind of driving. Now if you do not mind your engine screaming up to 5000 RPM to pass a big rig in the right lane of the freeway, then a gas engine is fine. After owning 2 diesel vehicles in the last 3 years I prefer them over any gas engines I have owned. I would trade my Sequoia for a diesel version in a heartbeat.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 07, 2008 12:26 pm) If you remember I said, "I'm talking about two similarly powered engine such as the two E-Class engines you referred to or say the two 2.0 liter turbocharged engines available in the Jetta later this year", and as such, I'm thinking, "not so much" in regards to the HUGE difference in torque you referred to. Why? The new VW/Audi EA 888 2.0T gasoline engine that is being released this fall is supposed to produce something like 210 HP and 250 lb-ft of torque, meanwhile, the new 2.0 TDI is supposed to produce 140 HP and 235 lb-ft of torque. While I have yet to see the final numbers, my bet is that the torque curve of the diesel will peak at a bit lower of an RPM reading than the torque curve of the gasser, but my statement still stands, Best Regards, Shipo
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Replying to: gagrice (May 07, 2008 6:56 am) I would agree that the crude supply makes a difference. It probably explains why some regions have very different diesel prices. "For example they say that Saudi crude is very low sulfur content right out of the ground. Where the oil from Iran has a very high sulfur content." According to energyintel the Arab Super Light oil is very low sulfur. The other four Saudi crude oils are comparable to the Iranian oils. http://energyintel.com/DocumentDetail.asp?document_id=200017 "We are getting a big percentage of our oil from Canada tar sands. I just wonder what the sulfur content is with that source?" "The specifications for the bit blend (heavy oil) are 21.5 API and a 3.3% sulfur content and for the SCO (light oil) are 36 API and a 0.015% sulfur content." http://fas.org/sgp/crs/misc/RL34258.pdf http://www.altanet.or.jp/OilsandsMarketability.pdf Slide 14 "My understanding is that sulfur removal is the big cost in refining diesel." I would agree and that is likely why the cost of refining diesel jumped from 06 to 08. As time goes on the cost may drop as the engineers figure out ways to improve the process. |
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Refiners amp up diesel output, limit gasoline flows Diesel prices outpace gasoline as demand increases from Europe, elsewhere By Moming Zhou, MarketWatch Last update: 6:12 p.m. EDT May 7, 2008 ..."While the production costs are almost the same, diesel prices are typically cheaper than gasoline due to less demand. "... link title
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Replying to: ruking1 (May 07, 2008 4:44 pm) That was before ULSD. 
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Replying to: shipo (May 07, 2008 1:48 pm) I am looking forward to that new VW Sportwagen diesel coming this fall. If diesel prices stay high many buyers will pass. Makes it easier to deal on one. Though CA has a lot of diesel buyers willing to pay a premium for any diesel vehicle.
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Replying to: gagrice (May 07, 2008 6:45 pm) Well, if the current 2.0T is any indication, the new engine will probably beat your criteria by a comfortable margin. Consider the following: 2008 VW/Audi 2.0T 200 HP  5,100-6,000 RPMs 207 lb-ft 1,800-5,000 RPMs "One other thing. Many of the turbo gas engines require premium gas. That ends up costing even more. A lot of stations here in San Diego are selling Premium and diesel for the same price around $4.25 per gallon." Yup, and the VW/Audi engines are no exception. That said, around here our prices are a bit more moderate for gasoline $3.45, $3.57, $3.67, and $4.21 (RUG, MUG, PUG, Diesel). While Diesel is still quite high, I'm thinking that it will drop back down to Regular prices by mid summer, just like it did last summer. Best Regards, Shipo |
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Replying to: shipo (May 07, 2008 9:36 am) "available anywhere in the USA...." Meaning RIGHT NOW, May 8th, 2008. There is not one. When I can see, drive, and evaluate the 2009 Jetta TDI, then I will be in position to modify my statement. Right now, in the USA, that car is "vaporware." And I have a buddy with a 2008 Prius, and he's getting 53 MPG regularly on a 32 mile commute. I can't see how the Jetta would "blow the doors" off 53 MPG. Time will tell. |
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http://www.marketwatch.com/news/story/diesel-prices-full-throttle-push/story.asp- x?guid=%7bA9A6465F-F30F-4466-91C7-ABFD1FCB57DE%7d&print=true&dist=printTop SAN FRANCISCO (MarketWatch) -- U.S. refiners have been increasing their diesel production in recent weeks while limiting gasoline output, responding to an unusual price gap between the two fuels. But more diesel output can hardly dampen record-high diesel prices in the short term, analysts said. Data from the Department of Energy showed Wednesday that motor gasoline production fell last week from a month ago, while distillates production, which is made up mostly of diesel and heating oil, increased. Driving diesel output higher, retail diesel prices have climbed to more than 60 cents higher than gasoline prices, stoked by strong global demand, especially from Europe, where diesel use for autos is more common than in the U.S. While the production costs are almost the same, diesel prices are typically cheaper than gasoline due to less demand. Higher prices for diesel and heating oil have encouraged refiners to produce more of these distillate fuels. A barrel of crude yields a certain amount of petroleum products, and refiners can replace some of their gasoline output with diesel, although in a limited range. |
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