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Future Crown Vic and Grand Marquis

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What is this discussion about? Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Sedan

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#92 of 152 Re: It's just like... [bigunit67] by peetiedog Sep 30, 2007 (10:15 pm)
Replying to: bigunit67 (Sep 30, 2007 8:56 am) Got the tie in bigunit67. Coincidentally, I was in the US Navy during the Vietnam War, and remember those old battle-wagons being re-commissioned and then de-commissioned again. And you're right, there's virtually no chance of them coming back again, though some try to make a case for the impressive shelling barrage they can lay down during a conventional conflict.   And again you're right, Ford probably won't continue the Panther trio. The difference though is that Ford, even after re-pricing these cars closer to actual transaction prices, is still making money on them. And Ford still pretty much owns the police cruiser and livery markets unto themselves, and shares ownership of the geriatric and near-geriatric crowd with Buick. Currently there is nothing out there that those markets would strongly prefer over the current stalwarts. Granted, the 60-80 year old generation is dieing away, but there are still enough of us old fogies left with enough disposable income to buy another round of these old behemoths.   Ford is currently looking at an Australian rwd platform as a replacement for it's large rwd cars, and I agree that's a much better long term solution, after all, there's not much more messaging that can be done on the Panther platform. But there is currently nothing in the Ford stable that can fill the void that would be left if Ford kills those cars. Sure, given no other choice, the market place will find it's own replacements. But will they be Ford products? And after the defections, will Ford be able to win back those defectors? Maybe, maybe not. But even if they do, they'll have to fight for what was heretofore theirs, and that could be quite expensive. I subscribe to the theory that you keep what's yours, while trying to take a little of the enemy's turf. You don't hand the enemy your turf on a silver platter and then hope to win it back later. My suggestion to Ford is, invest enough in a significant facelift to buy yourself enough time (3-4 yrs.) to get that new Aussie platform developed into world-class replacements for these cars. Something that'll be competitive for the next 15-20 years.   Ford doesn't have very deep pockets, so they've gotta make some smart moves, but they've also gotta take some chances. I think investing $250-$350 mil, maybe even $500 million in the CV/GM/TC trio could produce a change similar in magnitude as that of the '07 Expedition/Navigator, or the '08 Escape/Mariner. That would be enough of a change to drive most of their current market back into their showrooms for another dose. It'd be enough of a change to drive sales without the $10k rebate programs. Like I said before, people want their new car to look like a new car, and all of the name-changing (eg: MK-TC) aint gonna do it. Remember the Windstar/Freestar debacle? By giving us a substantially spiffed up new chariot, police departments, limo companies, semi-old fogies (like me), as well as the old fogies would all be happy to stay in the fold while Ford gets it's act together.   Oh, by the way, gas mileage numbers aren't all that bad on these cars, given what they compete with; besides, they're not being hit with gas-guzzler surcharges as many cars are. And as far as the new Taurus/Sable being superior to CV/GM, you're right, but tell that to all the major law enforcement agencies that test the hell out of virtually every concievable police cruiser, and still virtually all of them keep tapping the Crown Vic as the cruiser of choice, despite a few glaring soft spots. And while you're at it, try telling BMW, M/Bnz, Lexus, etc., that front wheel drive is the better drive system choice for a large luxury car. Heck, even Cadillac has seen the error of their ways and is making the switch back to rwd. Consumer demand has always been the stronger driver of product developement, despite CAFE. The answer for CAFE standards is hybrids (better yet diesel/electric hybrids) in short-term, hydrogen fuel cell technology in the mid-term, and vastly improved mass-transit infrastructure and consumer transit appetites in the long-term. Replies to this message: hwyhobo (Oct 01, 2007 10:11 am) peetiedog (Oct 02, 2007 12:01 am)
#93 of 152 Re: It's just like... [peetiedog] by hwyhobo Oct 01, 2007 (10:11 am)
Replying to: peetiedog (Sep 30, 2007 10:15 pm) peetiedog, I agree with you except for the facelift. The geriatric or near-geriatric crowd tends to be conservative and likes continuity. However, we are not stupid, and we can count money spent on fuel. Ford would be better off laying off cosmetic bandages and investing the money into updating the power plant with a modern, fuel-efficient diesel engine. Livery market would love it (they spend a ton of money on gasoline), and people like me would get in line as well. We don't need a drag-racing engine (Marauder was a bizarre idea for this market segment), but a reliable, efficient plant that would last 300K miles without major issues could give Ford a leg up. Replies to this message: peetiedog (Oct 02, 2007 12:01 am)
#94 of 152 Re: It's just like... [hwyhobo] by peetiedog Oct 02, 2007 (12:01 am)
Replying to: hwyhobo (Oct 01, 2007 10:11 am) Hello hywhobo (I like the handle). Ford has all but made a concrete commitment to building the replacements for the CV/GM/TC trio on a new stretched RWD Australian platform. The new Town Car for example, is supposed to be larger and positioned above the coming MKS. At that time, you gotta think they're gonna at least try to make those cars world class. Even Ford has had to have learned, that you can't try to fool all the people all the time, and expect to get away with. Besides, I hear that Alan Mullaly, Ford's new CEO is a pretty smart cookie.   It would be great if Ford would do exactly as you've said. New exciting styling, new platform, new powerplant/drive-train (possibly a clean-diesel/electric hybrid), better build quality & reliability, and a new marketing attitude. Then they would have a winning hand. Forget about chasing market share or pure numbers. Build 'Must Have' vehicles, the numbers will automaticly happen, but the best part is they will be PROFITABLE. Because of my past relationship with the Ford Motor Company product marketing, I spend a lot of time looking at and studying their new models. I believe they're on the right track. Quality is much better than just 10 yrs. ago, engineering is vastly improved, interiors are near European in quality (Ford has been taking a few pages out of Audi's book), and safety is top shelf. The tepidity and missteps of management, executive in-fighting and turf battles, along with stale products are what lies at the root of Ford's problems. Now that the insiders have been suppressed or pushed out, and under the new leadership of Alan Mullaly, Ford stands a good chance of putting the shine back on the blue oval. A lot of good product has been launched lately. Quality is high, warranty claims are way down (strong contributor to Ford's most recent quarter showing a profit), and subvention & incentive costs (on the new products) is very low (compared to products they replaced). So things are looking up.   Still, Ford is hampered by a very small monetary war-chest. They have to be careful how and when they spend their meager resources. I do understand they can't re-do all their stale product all at once. I know new vehicles like the Flex, the MKS, a new F-Series P/U, a new Ranger, and the new TwinForce engine family and PowerShift dual clutch family of gearboxes all have to take precedence over many other worthy needs. So until Ford can get some of those new products on the ground and start to fill up their coffers, which can fund the new CV/GM/TC replacements, as well as other new product further down the pipeline. I'd be content with a major facelift and powertrain stroking. It's probably all we even stand a remote chance of getting. Besides, it's better than letting the CV/GM/TC just languish in the gutter; totally untouched and unloved. So when sales continue to drop, some bean counter will use that as justification for the axe. History will bear witness to that being another one of Ford's major missteps; and the point when FoMoCo handed GM and Chrysler the limo/livery, police, and large rwd market on a silver platter. Doesn't it make sense to plug that 3-5 year gap, between the current Panther platform and the future stretched-Aussie platform repacements, with something that might defend your dominant market position until worthy replacements are available? Especially since you can probably make a profit doing it. Maybe the problem with my rationale is that it makes sense. Ford's recent history has been to continually do things that don't make sense, like shooting themselves in the foot.
#95 of 152 Buy 'em while you still can by ionosphere1 Dec 17, 2007 (12:31 pm)
I'm not a geezer and I'm buying a new 2008 Grand Marquis LS, and I'm a first time buyer of this type of car. I think GM and Chrysler have made a mistake abandoning this type of car and I hope Ford doesn't do the same thing. I hope this car has the durability and low maintenance cost it is supposed to have, because I plan to keep this car a long time. If Ford stops making them and we can't get this type of car anymore, then I'm going to be keeping this a real long time......if I like it as much as I hope I do. Replies to this message: lostwrench (Dec 19, 2007 7:33 pm) peetiedog (Dec 19, 2007 9:36 pm) ionosphere1 (Dec 20, 2007 8:04 am) peetiedog (Dec 20, 2007 10:36 pm) brucelinc (Dec 20, 2007 8:55 am)
#96 of 152 Re: Buy 'em while you still can [ionosphere1] by lostwrench Dec 19, 2007 (7:33 pm)
Replying to: ionosphere1 (Dec 17, 2007 12:31 pm) I bought my Grand Marquis LS new in 1999. I still have it and love the ride. I make 4 hour trips non-stop and after exiting the car I have no aches or pains. I can't last 1 hour in most of today's small cars without hurting.
#97 of 152 Re: Buy 'em while you still can [ionosphere1] by peetiedog Dec 19, 2007 (9:36 pm)
Replying to: ionosphere1 (Dec 17, 2007 12:31 pm) Okay youngster. You're not a geezer (neither am I, I'm a near-geezer), you just like geezer & near-geezer cars, and there's nothing wrong with that. The Grand Marquis is a great car, and one of the best car values for the money. Spacious, safe, large trunk, comfortable, reliable, low maintenance, luxurious, inexpensive (to buy and operate), and durable. It's not unreasonable to expect these cars to last 20 years or more, and get well over a quarter million miles of operating life without the need for a major overhaul or rebuild. Just keep up the minor maintenances and frequent oil services (every 5000 miles), and you'll find your Grand Marquis to be a lot like a Timex watch, it'll 'take a lickin and keep on tickin'. It's not going to draw envious stares from the fellas or passionate looks from the babes, and it definately won't make your blood boil with excitement when you think about driving it; but it will be a reliable, hard working companion you can depend on, and it won't drive you to the poor house. If that's what you're looking for, you're not just going to like it, you're going to love it.   I'm with you, I too hope Ford doesn't abandon this type of car. But it doesn't look good for the Crown Victoria/Grand Marquis/Town Car. Ford has decided to let them soldier on unchanged at least through 2009, but beyond that is not real clear. It seems most likely that they will be discontinued after that. There is a high probability that Ford will return to the large U. S. rwd market later with a version of their Australian rwd platform, which will probably (hopefully) be a world-class competitor. That's good and well, but it appears that Ford may abandon that market for 2 or 3 years while they prepare their replacements. That, I think is where they would be making a big mistake. A significant face-lift, a mild re-engineering, and a nice powertrain massaging for the 2009 model would allow this trio to soldier on for another 3 or 4 years. Ford could get a nice up-tic in sales and defend their dominance of this market segment for a relatively small price, while buying the time needed to prepare the world-class competitive replacements they will ultimately need for long term viability. Hopefully someone at Ford is listening to people like us and doesn't abandon this type of car.   So unfortunately, you may have to plan on keeping your '08 Grand Marquis LS for a pretty long time. I know you're gonna love it, so that's not gonna be a bad thing. I wish you lots of luck with your new geezer's car: sorry, I mean youngster's car. Replies to this message: ionosphere1 (Dec 20, 2007 8:04 am) peetiedog (Dec 20, 2007 10:36 pm) brucelinc (Dec 20, 2007 8:55 am)
#98 of 152 Re: Buy 'em while you still can [peetiedog] by ionosphere1 Dec 20, 2007 (8:04 am)
Replying to: peetiedog (Dec 19, 2007 9:36 pm) I'm not looking for excitement in my car, but comfort and reliability. I don't know why Ford doesn't just do some minor improvements like putting in a rear sensor and update the dashboard, but if they did those things, maybe they wouldn't be offering the $5,500 rebate on them. I'm hoping the rebate increases after 1/2/2008. Since I won't have the car for 8-12 weeks, which will be in mid January-mid February, that will be after the current 1/2/2008 end of current rebate period. The dealer told me that if the rebate decreases before I get my car, I will get the $5,500 rebate, but if the rebate increases, that I will get the new amount. He told me that when I questioned about the fineprint on the website about "must take from dealer stock by 1/2/2008", which implied to me that the car had to be in my posession by that date, not just an order for one. What the dealer says makes sense, because if Ford were to tell customers that not only do you have to wait 8-12 weeks for your car, but you don't get the rebate either, that would be a good way to go out of business. Replies to this message: peetiedog (Dec 20, 2007 10:36 pm)
#99 of 152 Unpopular color? by ionosphere1 Dec 20, 2007 (8:08 am)
Also, the dealer required me give a $3,000 non-refundable deposit, because he said the color I picked, Norsea Blue, that he would not be able to sell it if I changed my mind. Wonder if that's really true? Why would this color make the car unsellable?
#100 of 152 Maybe because by marsha7 Dec 20, 2007 (8:11 am)
Norsea Blue is awfully close to Nausea Blue???...
#101 of 152 Re: Buy 'em while you still can [peetiedog] by brucelinc Dec 20, 2007 (8:55 am)
Replying to: peetiedog (Dec 19, 2007 9:36 pm) I have a soft spot in my heart for Crown Vics, Grand Marquis, and Town Cars, too. My parents always drove them and they are a lot of car for the money. I get one as a rental from time to time.   My question is have any of the lovers of these cars driven a new Taurus or Sable? I can't speak to the durability but I think you would find the Taurus/Sable to have a more comfortable and quieter ride, more rear seat room, better driving dynamics, better visability, stronger performance and better fuel economy, while taking up about a foot less garage space.

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