Last post on Jun 07, 2008 at 4:54 PM
You are in the Ford Crown Victoria/Mercury Grand Marquis
What is this discussion about?
Ford Crown Victoria, Mercury Grand Marquis, Sedan
#75 of 152 It's official...
Jun 10, 2007 (7:33 am)
Was in the B&N the other day checking out the auto mags for June/July. Memory is failing a wee bit but I believe it was in the most recent Car and Driver that they had a long article about Ford's future, with the Interceptor being on the cover and the focus of an inside article.
It went on to talk about how much $$$ the company makes from F-150, Mustang, and "Panther-Platform" sales and if it weren't for those, woe be to Ford. It also said that for 2010 the Company has announced it will close the plants that make the Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, and Lincoln Town Car.
Fait Accompli? Kinda sounds like it. After all, as the article stated, at that point the platform will be 31 years old and who'd want it - words to the effect. So we've come to the point that age, success, and profitability are being used as pretexts to cancel something...niiiiice.
I'm one to argue the cars needed serious updating, but do you really have to throw out a rock-solid platform in order to accomplish it? Guess so, as any and all execs that pushed the Panther platform are likely long gone and it's "nobody's baby", so why keep it and it's accompanying bathwater?
#76 of 152 Re: It's official... [bigunit67]
Jun 10, 2007 (7:41 am)
I just wonder what all the executive transports and police will use as a good portion of the police and executive transport fleets are Crown Vics and Lincoln Towncars.
#77 of 152 Re: It's official... [bigunit67]
Jun 10, 2007 (2:55 pm)
"Car & Driver" is frequently more alarming than authoritative.
ARM is no dummy so it would not be surprising to see a continuation of the CV, GM, & TC all with IRS and a DOHC engine for just the TC. All contained in a sleek new body design.
#78 of 152 Hope what I read is indeed wrong!
Jun 11, 2007 (10:15 pm)
Good point Paisan. I'm just reporting what I read (but not what I'd do if I were in charge of Ford)
I'm all for the platform continuing, trust me. To let a warhorse like that go without so much as even a passing upgrade is a crime.
One of my best friends is a highway patrolman in Missouri. They have been testing out the Dodge Charger police car and found it to be wanting as compared to the CV (v-6 version). He wasn't personally involved, but just said reports the field force was given was that it didn't have the durability/structural integrity of the CV. I assume Dodge is working on that.
The reason they tested it was about a year ago Ford informed them that they might be closing down production of the CV in 08/09. Since the state buys a massive amount of vehicles (cars replaced at the 50,000 mi mark) they began testing alternatives. All he's been told since is that they don't think that will happen in 08/09...not a ringing endorsement.
#79 of 152 Re: Hope what I read is indeed wrong! [bigunit67]
Jun 14, 2007 (9:11 am)
Well comparing the V6 version of the charger to the V8 CV is not a fair comparo IMHO. The new chargers seem to be hitting the road pretty well in terms of police vehicles. We'll see how they do now that DC has been sold. Who knows what the next version will have or have not.
#80 of 152 Re: Hope what I read is indeed wrong! [paisan]
Jun 14, 2007 (10:07 am)
Yet, the state trooper driving the Charger "6" has been known to declare, "Oh, I could have had a V8!"
#81 of 152 Re: It's official... [bigunit67]
Aug 03, 2007 (12:19 am)
I wholeheartedly agree. Ford's making a mistake killing off the Crown Vic, Grand Marquis, and Town Car. I also agree that they're still really nice cars; let's just say that they're behind the PAZAAZ curve. Ford owns the police cruiser market, the limo/livery market, the full size GSA/fleet/rental market, and the 65+ geriatric/55+ near-geriatric (of which I'm a member) market. Who in their right minds would abandon all that? The Panther platform is rock-solid, and these cars provide the most car value available in the USA today, even Consumer Reports Magazine loves the Town Car. Yes, they are in need of a significant updating and a real face-lift (similar in magnitude to the Town Car's '03 over '02 model face-lift: nothing major, but easily noticeable). A nice bump in power (eg: 5.4L/300hp instead of the 4.6L/239hp engine) would also help. Give us buyers a reason to trade out of their 03's, 04's & 05's, and we probably will.
Ford has made so many blunders and false-starts, and then re-starts ('The Way Forward', then 'The New Way Forward' and even 'The New, New Way Forward'). Then there's the name changes, casting strong 'Brand Equity' names to the wind for new names, in an attempt to spice up warmed-over oatmeal. Why throw veneralble names and products like Crown Victoria, Grand Marquis, and Town Car away. They immediately say "Ford", "Mercury", and "Lincoln". It costs a lot of money to grow name recognition like that, and the public's expectation of the products tied to those names can not be some pint-sized FWD/AWD replacement. Ford needs to stop cutting corners, do it right and stay in business. Or keep trying to cut corners and find themselves takeover targets. Or worse yet, find themselves joining American Motors and Studebaker in the automotive history museums.
I know Ford has to be very careful how it spends it's last $12-15 billion or so. And I know that Ford needs to bring some dramaticly different products to market, so they can catch the eye of those well heeled hi-tech kids who're in the Honda, Toyota, BMW and Audi showrooms. The Lincoln MK-S and Ford Flex are a nice start, but the Ford Interceptor, Tonka Truck, and Lincoln MK-R are sorely needed soon. But it can take a couple billion dollars to bring a new line of serious contenders to market, and even then WILL IT WIN or WILL IT LOOSE? Who knows. Why not drop a couple hundred million dollars to dress-up the OLE' PANTHER. Let her soldier on another 5 or 6 years, she's guaranteed to pay dividends. She'll fill a spot (RWD Sedan) that everyone is running back to, and nothing else Ford currently has will fill. I guarantee if Ford gives me and folks like me a reason to trade-in my 2005 Town Car, we'll do it. The Limo/Livery folks (fashion concious as they are) will want the new chariot, the police will want the new better pursuit unit, and even the fleets will want the updated look. Then Ford will have to hire Brinks to haul all their profits to the bank; heck, a Panther redo might even fund one of those big ticket new products.
#82 of 152 Re: It's official... [peetiedog]
Aug 03, 2007 (9:30 am)
I recently read where the CV will be religated to Livery, GM will be marketed in GS & LS, while the TC continues.
I confess I haven't noticed much change between the 02 & 03 TC appearance. From 1998 on - same style to me.
My Rx for buying a new TC includes a major style change with the Mustang 300 hp engine, but we can dream can't we?
#83 of 152 Don't kill the Town Car, Crown Vic, and Grand Marquis!
Aug 03, 2007 (11:40 am)
I've read the same things. I've also read and heard, from a few lower level internal sources, that the CV/GM/TC as we know them, are to be killed after 2009. Ford has very few resources and is running scared. They know they've made a lot of mistakes, and now they're in crisis/survival mode. As a result they're betting the house on a few new new products, platforms and engines (ie: twinforce), selling off assets (except Ford Credit, hopefully) to help fund it, and hoping for success. They know they need to do things differently than before (at least they've come to that painfull recognition); but in my opinion, that doesn't mean amputate your left arm because a couple fingers are dead: just cut off those fingers and move on. This will be another move that they will live to regret. Make the Flex, make the MK-S, replace the Ranger (way over due), build a lot of the hot new concepts (Lord knows we need em). But at least put a few dollars into something that has a proven track record and a reasonable chance of success.
You're right the difference between the '02 to '03 TC was not as visually dramatic as between the '97 to '98. The '03 was a significant mid-model facelift. Look at the two side by side, the differences are subtle but easily noticeable. Also significant interior changes. Ford will never spend the $$$ for a complete re-do of these cars; heck, they're choosing to be 'penny wise and pound foolish' by not investing in the decent facelift I'm proposing. I just hope that Mr. Mullaly (Ford's CEO) will happen to read comments like the ones in this chat, and do something sensible about it. A major re-styling/re-engineering would be great, but I don't expect it. If they did, then these cars could live on for at least one more styling generation 7-10 years. With a decent facelift and interior messaging, these cars would see a spike in interest and sales, and could soldier on for at least 4-5 more years.
Regarding the Mustang's 300hp engine; that would be great in a Crown Vic XL 500 (remember the old Galaxie XL 500), or another Marauder. But for the Town Car, I think low-end torque and the horse power numbers are achieved. Also you don't pollute the Mustang's performance image by putting it's engine in grandpa's Town Car, maybe dad's Marauder is okay though. Besides the older dads and grand-dads would be more appreciative of engine size and the slower-roller, grunt force of the 5.4L, 300hp engine from the Navigator.
One thing I will say about Ford is, their interiors have improved far more over the last dozen years than any other manufacturers. They are closer to Audi quality (the industry standard for interiors) than to that of General Motors. And their quality has been improving by leaps and bounds. It's unfortunate that customers need to see significant styling changes outside before they'll look at the inside of a car, but that's the way it is. Witness the Windstar to Freestar mistake. The new car's interior was nicely done (except they missed the boat by dropping only the rear seat into the floor, Chrysler and Honda killed them on that one), and it was well engineered. But instead of spending the money to significantly change the look, they thought they could fool the customers into looking past the near identical exterior, by changing the NAME. I am a Ford/Lincoln/Mercury guy, always have been, and my family was a FORD family. Even when I lampoon them, it's my way of telling them where they're going wrong, because I really want to see them survive and thrive. If Ford goes away, a big piece of AMERICANA gets flushed down the toilet. WAKE UP FORD, THERE ARE A LOT OF US OUT HERE WHO WILL BUY YOUR PRODUCTS, YOU JUST GOTTA MAKE WHAT WE WANT!
Aug 06, 2007 (7:16 am)
if they put a 300 HP engine in the CV, don't add $5000 to the sticker like with the Marauder...then engine just isnt't worth $5K additional over the cost of the standard 239 HP V8...pull that trick and they could easily lose me forever...