Honda Accord Hybrid - worth the extra $$$? - READ ONLY

223 messages, Last post on Feb 07, 2006 at 6:12 PM

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#62 of 223 Re: [gagrice] by robertsmx Jan 24, 2005 (8:20 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 8:04 am) Hmmm, what about people who ARE getting something like 29-34 mpg? And those who are getting 21-24 mpg, what do they get on a non-hybrid Accord V6? You can't use "better" without having a baseline. Could you? BTW, how many of them have substantial amount of miles (enough to be considered "past break-in")? From my personal experiences, a typical Honda improves in terms of smoothness and fuel economy around 5-7K miles. Replies to this message: gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 8:48 am) robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 9:04 am) gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 10:09 am) and 1 more... tlauro (Feb 11, 2005 10:47 pm)
#63 of 223 Re: [robertsmx] by gagrice Jan 24, 2005 (8:48 am)
Replying to: robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 8:20 am) From my personal experiences, a typical Honda improves in terms of smoothness and fuel economy around 5-7K miles. I guess we will see when that happens. I was struck by the fact only one person was able to get over 30 mpg. His commute is longer than all the rest. His mileage was over 30 from the get go. So he should maybe be getting closer to the 36 mpg by now. I don't know what his mix of driving is. There is a big gap between the EPA 32 mpg combined and someone getting 21 mpg combined. Personally I think it is hard to keep from racing when a car is overpowered as the HAH is. Replies to this message: robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 9:04 am) gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 10:09 am) robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 11:26 am) tlauro (Feb 11, 2005 10:47 pm)
#64 of 223 Re: [gagrice] by robertsmx Jan 24, 2005 (9:04 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 8:48 am) Bottomline: You cannot compare an absolute to nothing. To compare, you have to have a baseline, and the number you want to compare it against. Another point you don't seem to get is that... if I drive 5 miles and average 20 mpg, and another person drives 5000 miles averaging 35 mpg... it would be ridiculous to assume that average mileage is 27.5 mpg. Blame the simplistic math here. Short distance commuting (city or highway) is bad for mileage, in hybrid or non-hybrid especially if the car doesn't warm up long enough. This also comes from my personal experience. Replies to this message: gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 10:09 am) robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 11:26 am)
#65 of 223 Re: [robertsmx] by gagrice Jan 24, 2005 (10:09 am)
Replying to: robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 9:04 am) Short distance commuting (city or highway) is bad for mileage, in hybrid or non-hybrid especially if the car doesn't warm up long enough. That is a fact. However my Suburban is used mostly for trips to the Home Depot 3 miles away. Or long trips. My around town mileage never varies from tank to tank more than 5%. You are telling me that losing 33% of your fuel efficiency is normal on short trips. I would shove that car down the throat of the Honda dealer. Then join the class action suit that is sure to be on the horizon. I realize that it is the EPA that makes those grossly over optimistic mileage claims. Toyota, Ford and Honda could refute them if they were honest. Replies to this message: robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 11:26 am)
#66 of 223 OK guys settle down a bit, what with cars getting shoved down throats etc by larsb Jan 24, 2005 (10:16 am)
Whoa, fellas - let's not shove any cars anywhere.... OK here is the fact listing: All cars lose efficiency when operating below optimum engine temps. Fact 2: Hybrid cars use the electric portion of the engine to enhance MPG, and a key part of that "electric assistance" is the AutoStop feature, which by design DOES NOT ACTIVATE until the engine reaches a certain optimum temp. Fact 3: Using the electric assist is in part what separates Hybrid cars MPG from a non-hybrid model. Fact 4: When electric assist is not used, Hybrids have no adavantage but neither do they have a disadvantage over their non-hybrid counterparts. Replies to this message: gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 10:37 am) zitch (Jan 24, 2005 11:10 am) gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 11:20 am) and 6 more... tlauro (Feb 11, 2005 11:25 pm) xcel (Feb 12, 2005 7:42 am) and 4 more...
#67 of 223 Re: OK guys settle down a bit, what with cars getting shoved down throats etc [larsb] by gagrice Jan 24, 2005 (10:37 am)
Replying to: larsb (Jan 24, 2005 10:16 am) You are right on all issues. I also think that a person with the will power to drive the HAH as some of you HCH drivers have learned to drive, will get close to the EPA mileage. I just don't believe human nature is such that many will have that will power. A car like the HCH is not going to slam you back in the seat, so the tendency is to try and get the most from the car that it was designed to accomplish. The result is the HCH is right at the EPA averages. The HAH was designed to prove you can have power and good mileage. Honda failed to take into consideration human nature. I don't know many people that have fast cars that do not drive fast. Replies to this message: zitch (Jan 24, 2005 11:10 am) gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 11:20 am) robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 11:28 am) and 1 more... kernick (Jan 25, 2005 5:56 pm) and 3 more... tlauro (Feb 11, 2005 11:25 pm) xcel (Feb 12, 2005 7:42 am) tlauro (Feb 12, 2005 8:42 am) and 3 more...
#68 of 223 Re: OK guys settle down a bit, what with cars getting shoved down throats etc [gagrice] by zitch Jan 24, 2005 (11:10 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 10:37 am) Why is it Honda's responsibility to factor in that people like the "go" pedal? Every car companies will sell what people want. Do over 50% of the drivers on the road really need SUVs? No, but many people want them. So car companies make them. People have made claims that they will never look at hybrids because of "poor" performance. Honda is, among other things, filling in that gap with the Accord Hybrid. Replies to this message: gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 11:20 am) robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 11:28 am) Sylvia (Jan 24, 2005 11:44 am) kernick (Jan 25, 2005 5:56 pm) miketawas (Feb 11, 2005 12:18 am) and 2 more...
#69 of 223 Re: OK guys settle down a bit, what with cars getting shoved down throats etc [zitch] by gagrice Jan 24, 2005 (11:20 am)
Replying to: zitch (Jan 24, 2005 11:10 am) People have made claims that they will never look at hybrids because of "poor" performance. I just don't understand why someone that is looking for a high performance car would even think of a hybrid. You want to go fast get an EVO MR or even a V6 Accord is fairly fast. Save the money you spend for all the hybrid stuff and put it in your tank and race down the street. I don't know it just is not logical to me to try and get both from one car. And early mileage returns are favoring my viewpoint. The misleading Honda ads would have you to believe you can have it all. You can, but not at the same time. No free lunch! Replies to this message: robertsmx (Jan 24, 2005 11:28 am) Sylvia (Jan 24, 2005 11:44 am) kernick (Jan 25, 2005 5:56 pm) miketawas (Feb 11, 2005 12:18 am) rfruth (Feb 11, 2005 3:29 pm) backy (Feb 11, 2005 3:59 pm)
#70 of 223 Re: [gagrice] by robertsmx Jan 24, 2005 (11:26 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 24, 2005 10:09 am) 5% is too little to even figure out in a low mileage vehicle like Suburban. That would be like less than an mpg. But, if you’re accurate in your observation while driving around greater distance that allows your vehicle to run at optimum temperature as opposed to not, it is possible that your vehicle is either delivering worse fuel economy on longer drives than it should or it is bending the norm. You are telling me that losing 33% of your fuel efficiency is normal on short trips. Never measured it as accurately, so never quoted a number. How did you arrive at these numbers, and involving MY driving? Toyota, Ford and Honda could refute them if they were honest. Prove that they are dishonest. If you can’t then your assumption is wrong (again). I just don't believe human nature is such that many will have that will power. Blame it on humans, not the car or the technology involved especially if latter is capable of delivering promised results.