Honda Accord Hybrid - worth the extra $$$? - READ ONLY

223 messages, Last post on Feb 07, 2006 at 6:12 PM

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#6 of 223 Value is relative by backy Jan 18, 2005 (5:19 pm)
The problem with the question "Is it worth the extra $$$$?" is that value is relative. If someone is looking for just basic transportation, they can get by just fine with an Accord DX, and a used one at that. That car will get you and your family from Point A to Point B just fine, and if you opt for the manual tranny you'll get fuel economy within about 10% of the HAH based on EPA ratings. All for about $15,000 less than the HAH (more if you get a used DX). So why pay more for the HAH? Depends on your priorities and how much it's worth to you to satisfy them. How much is a leather interior worth to you? How much is the power of a V6 vs. an I4? How much is a navi system worth? How much is the exclusivity and extra performance of the hybrid version worth? In other words, this is a personal choice and personal decision. Many people make major purchases based on emotion, not on quantitative criteria. I go the quantitative route when I buy cars, but not entirely--I won't buy certain cars because I think they're ugly or the wrong color, for example. But I also won't spend more than I need to in order to meet my transportation requirements. Thus, would I buy an HAH today? No. Would I buy one tomorrow? No. Would I buy ANY V6 sedan now or in the near future? No. Why? Because smaller cars meet the needs of my family and me, and I have better uses for my money. For those people who don't mind spending $30k on the latest in automotive technology, and for those for which the HAH puts a smile on their face, I say, "Have fun!" There's a lot worse ways to spend $30k.
#7 of 223 Re: A new type of Hybrid [gagrice] by gfedchak Jan 18, 2005 (5:20 pm)
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 18, 2005 2:50 pm) This is from Allan Mallinger's book TOO PERFECT (Fawcett '92): "I find that many obsessives harbor a fear of being exploited financially - one component of an overall tendency to be guarded with money. Frugality may take many forms, including the following: - A reluctance to spend money on anything but true necessities. - The need to get the very best buy - regardless of how much time and effort are expended in shopping for it. ........ - Pride in making one's possessions last a long time." I think you're trying to transplant your overall worldview (and perhaps mine as well) onto all car buyers. While I think it's true that many Honda Civic Hybrid owners (such as myself!) fall into Mallinger's nasty categories, as do many owners of the Prius and Insight and many diesel owners, I doubt that many Honda Accord Hybrid buyers are concerned at all with saving much money. In other words, it's worth the money. To them. It's a luxury purchase, not a necessity. So I doubt that pointing out a buck here or five thousand bucks there matters re: the HAH. Folks who spring for the HAH are not inferior, irrational car buyers. In fact, the psychological community might suggest that they're a lot healthier than those of us who hang around here and wring our hands about it!
#8 of 223 Financial Evaluation by kernick Jan 18, 2005 (5:25 pm)
So if you buy the standard V-6 and the HAH at MSRP, there is about a $3K difference right. And the numbers say there is 25% greater mpg (let's use EPA for now). Say over the next few years the avg. gas price is $2.00. So lets see every 1K miles the HAH will use 30gal or $60 of gas. The reg. V-6 will use 40 gal = $80. So you save $20 / 1K miles. Or you don't break even until 150K miles right? No it is even worse then that because of the Time Value of Money. When you buy the HAH you are paying interest on that $3000 difference. If the interst rate is 5%, it costs you $15 per month interest which is most of your $20 gas savings. And then by 150K miles the hybrid system is going to have cost you some $, and maybe serious money. So financially no it isn't worth it. If it makes you feel better YOU didn't burn the gas, and someone else did here in the country in their hemi, or some new driver in China, then maybe it was worth it.
#9 of 223 HAH Buyer - Scene 1 by backy Jan 18, 2005 (5:35 pm)
"I really want a quick car. But the DW [or DH] says we have to get a practical car. A sedan that seats five, is reliable, all that boring stuff! <expletive deleted>" "Wait... C/D says the HAH goes 0-60 in 6.7 seconds, and is EPA rated like an economy car! And it's an Accord!!" "Honey, I've found the car we should buy." "I told you, no Mustang GT!" "No, dear, it's a very practical, sensible car. An Accord." "An Accord! That's great, those are very sensible cars. But I'm surprised you'd buy something that... boring." "Just trying to be practical like you, sweetheart." <Turn and wink>
#10 of 223 HAH a great car for the Yuppie by gagrice Jan 18, 2005 (6:12 pm)
If you have a good job and the house is secure. I say the car makes little difference. If you are a young couple and allow yourself to get seduced into the HAH it is a shame. Even worse if you don't own a home. That car may be the down you need to get qualified. I have a great story about a couple in our church. They were looking for a car a couple years ago. They also wanted to buy a nice home. They passed on the expensive car and bought a nice Elantra hatchback. Plenty of room for the two kids. They were able to qualify for a $200k home in the suburbs. The husband got transferred to TX this last fall. They sold that home for $490,000 moved to TX bought a bigger home cash and had enough left to buy a new Volvo cash. The moral of this story is get your priorities in order before you buy an expensive car. Replies to this message: gfedchak (Jan 20, 2005 2:32 am)
#12 of 223 thinking HAH , HAH by luckylou Jan 19, 2005 (8:10 am)
My wife and I want to simplified our life as we get older. We have been looking into getting a Honda hybrid but thanks to this discussion and other related topics here at Edmunds , we can make the correct decision. Now we have been leaning toward the EX I4 with leather and NAV. it does very good mileage and is very reliable .The difference in price with the HAH is quite a few thousands . Once the Huppla on the HAH passes the prices will drop and other good changes will be added to this hybrid, hopefully the moonroof and trunk space and perhaps bringing back the station wagon. Lou
#13 of 223 Re: A new type of Hybrid [gagrice] by robertsmx Jan 19, 2005 (8:12 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 18, 2005 2:50 pm) That is what those that purchase are hoping for in mileage What would you say about those who aren't achieving the promiseland from EPA world with a non-hybrid? Common sense dictates that a more efficient way of utilizing energy is going to return better results. Now, what does this "better" to? Certainly not firing in the dark, but similar style and conditions. Apples to Apples, not Apples to Fruit cake. Replies to this message: gagrice (Jan 19, 2005 8:29 am) robertsmx (Jan 19, 2005 9:46 am)
#14 of 223 Re: A new type of Hybrid [robertsmx] by gagrice Jan 19, 2005 (8:29 am)
Replying to: robertsmx (Jan 19, 2005 8:12 am) What would you say about those who aren't achieving the promiseland from EPA world with a non-hybrid? I would say EPA estimates are going to be closer with the non-hybrid car. Consumer Affairs agrees with that conclusion. Only one HAH has lived up to the EPA estimates for the owners reporting their mileage on green hybrid. "Zero emission" hybrid cars are all the rage at the moment. Consumers who want to be eco-friendly like them. Time-obsessessed bureaucrats in the D.C. area are snapping them up because zero emission vehicles are allowed to use car-pool lanes. Others are buying them because, with gas prices around $2, they expect to reap huge savings in fuel, which is where the gotcha comes into play. Truth be told, most drivers don't get the 45 miles per gallon they expect in city driving. Reason? The federally-mandated fuel tests don't measure hybrids properly. Many drivers may find themselves getting around 30 mpg in city driving. Replies to this message: robertsmx (Jan 19, 2005 9:46 am)
#15 of 223 Re: A new type of Hybrid [gagrice] by robertsmx Jan 19, 2005 (9:46 am)
Replying to: gagrice (Jan 19, 2005 8:29 am) Not necessarily. EPA estimates are going to be close regardless of hybrid or non-hybrid orientation of the car if the driving conditions involve similar situations as EPA adopts to estimate the fuel economy. To understand “how close”, you must realize that 10% of 20 mpg is just 2 mpg, or 18-22 mpg spread. OTOH, 10% at 40 mpg comes to a range of 36-44 mpg. So you’re correct, the former would be “closer” when you look at absolute number, but in percentage, may not be. As for real world fuel economy in the same world, we haven’t seen enough of comparisons to draw conclusions that anti-hybrid sentiments use. There was one that I remember, yes the one C&D had a few months ago with 4-5 cars driven over a range and varied circumstances. We have discussed it before. Need to do it again? If you want 45 mpg in city driving, get Civic Hybrid. Accord Hybrid isn't supposed to fill-in for every aspect of a car ranging from a micro car to a heavy duty pickup truck. Take it for what it is! "Zero emission" hybrid cars are all the rage at the moment. Is it, really? I didn’t know that. If you want zero emissions, go for it. But stereotyping hybrid technology makes no sense to me. If it offers cleaner (relative, not absolute term), greater efficiency and at similar or better performance, I couldn’t complain about it. But then I must not be keeping up with the times.