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Hybrid Vehicles Hybrid Vehicles - Archived Discussions Honda Accord Hybrid - worth the extra $$$? 
223 messages, Last post on Feb 07, 2006 at 6:12 PM
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by carefully sorting my recycling material each week I know I make a difference on my lasting footprint on the earth and that makes me feel good. It doesn't pad my wallet, but it does make me feel richer non the less. The HAH I believe would provide the same intrinsic value of feeling good about avoiding stops at the fuel pump and lining the wallets of greedy energy conglomerates. my 2 cents
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Replying to: aspesisteve (Jan 21, 2005 12:39 pm) |
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Replying to: robertsmx (Jan 21, 2005 8:08 am) me: yes but doesn't the HAH have all the parts as the regular V-6 + the hybrid system. The hybrid system consists of an electric motor, but aren't there mechanical systems - the regenerative braking system - hoses, fluid, batteries? what else? you: With hybrid power, the changes are substantial in terms of fuel economy and emissions. me: you don't need a hybrid system that gives you 260hp. There are plenty of regular cars that can do that. And if you're using that engine power it is for a few seconds of your drive, unless you don't care about speed limits. What there is a shortage of is high-mileage economical hybrids. It doesn't need another powerful family sedan, that could be replace with a 4-cylinder Camry or Accord giving up a few mpg. Put the limited hybrid manufacturing capacity into vehicles that get 50% better mpg than the HAH. I carpool with a guy who has a 4-cyl 2003 Accord, and we do our 30 mile commute in basically the same time whether we take his car or my modified '01 Firebird. The speed with which we can go is based on the law; extra hp does not mean you can go faster, or get anywhere quicker, except for the seconds difference when accelerating. 260hp for an Accord makes no sense, when hybrids should be focused on getting people turned on to getting good mpg.
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Replying to: kernick (Jan 21, 2005 6:15 pm) That's what I say. The HAH was designed to sell to "Green Racers". They can have a hotrod and feel like they are doing a bit for the environment. The problem is it is not that clean and not that fast. The Prius is cleaner and gets better mileage, the EVO MR will blow it's doors off.
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Replying to: gagrice (Jan 21, 2005 10:50 pm) 1) It's unique right now. 2) I can tell people I have a hybrid, and they'll smile on me. They won't know it doesn't get 50 mpg, because 3) I want to have the fantasy of being a racer. Wait until I get to blow by those people in their Tauruses and Impalas. (Now there's performance!) This is a step up from racing on the Playstation with the kids. 4) I'll feel good saving some gas. Not considering all the time that more importantly is the consumption of fuel in other parts of his lifestyle. Whether this driver owns a powerboat, or has a vacation home, or how far they live from work (overall driving mileage), is more important than his choice of an HAH over a Malibu Maxx, or such. The best thing people can do who are concerned about fuel economy is to live close to where they work, and cut out optional trips, or combine them with errands. And of course take public transportation if possible. And if you do these things, you'll find that the gas savings in $'s between an HAH and a hemi 300C would be very small. Reduced driving would also unclog the roads, and people wouldn't again waste gas sitting in congestion. And your maintenance costs go down. So really give it some thought whether the problems with auto transportation is the vehicles, or is it how much we drive. If you think fuel conservation is a serious issue then you should be focused on lifestyle; the vehicle is only a small part of the potential problem. Everyone bailing water on the Titanic (helping in an ineffective way) wasn't the answer to saving themselves.
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Replying to: kernick (Jan 22, 2005 6:19 am) Maybe people who buy a HAH are trying to do something to save gas. Maybe they can't pack up and move closer to work--ever try to uproot three kids from the schools and friends they love, or move far away from an elderly parent? Not every community has a convenient bus or rail line to work. Some people, e.g. sales people, need to drive around during the day visiting customers. They can't take a bus to work. At least if someone buys a HAH instead of a 300C Hemi they're getting 50-100% better fuel economy than the Hemi. And they're not wasting gas sitting in congestion because the ICE is off then. A little impact in the grand scheme of things, but it's something.
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if you buy a hah because it's the latest and greatest, good. if you buy one because you want that extra 1/2 getting 0 to 60, good. if you buy one because honda makes fine vehicles, good. if you buy one because you just want to, good. if you buy one because it's a 'green' vehicle, then maybe that isn't the right reason. the epa doesn't really rate it any better, or even as good as many non hybrids.
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The thing about hybrids that the HAH may have solved is their ability to get over mountain ranges without loosing a large source of its power. C&D mag tested a Honda Civic hybrid in one mountain range, and exhausted the battery pack after a mile's upward driving. At that point they have less than 100 hp to haul the car over the mountains - not good as the car could barely maintain 45 mph or so. Ditto the Prius. At least the HAH has a large 6 so if you need the power, it is there. And Honda is trying to manage fuel econony with cylinder deactivation. I wonder how far up a mountain range the HAH can get before its hybrid battery pack runs out of juice?
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Replying to: backy (Jan 22, 2005 7:59 am) I'm just pointing out that anyone thinking that buying the HAH has done something wondrous for saving fuel, is probably looking at one of the lowest factors in fuel usage. Lifestyle choices are by far larger factors. IMO, people are unwilling or as you point out sometimes unable (I think this is more rare than you do) to make lifestyle changes, so they say to themselves what can I do that won't hurt. So they don't give up power or room in their car, but make a very modest improvement in mpg. Rather like having a thousand $'s in your pocket when you go to the store to buy that big-screen TV, and putting $1 in the Salvation Army kettle, and then telling everyone how great it is to give to charity. Well okay, you did something. Now I don't see anything wrong with people who do this. It is fairly normal to make compromises, and keep most of what you earn and buy what you want. I do. I just don't think anyone who buys an HAH or similar vehicle should be that proud of their choice from a fuel economy choice, any more than I would think someone putting a $1 in the kettle is a great philanthropist. I don't see the economic sense of buying the HAH; and as stated above I don't see where it is a big mpg/environmental improvement worth touting as "green". |
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I have read the posts on the choice of a hybrid with interest since I am in the market for one (availability spotty). I am probably Honda's marketing target. I drive 21 miles to work every day and back into Washington DC. On good days it a 50 minute commute, on bad 2 hours. I am in my late 50's, getting old and crotchety. I have discovered that a comfortable car going to work in traffic is a minor blessing. I also use the car to go to the shore on summer week-ends and other trips. It has to carry four comfortably. The cars I am considering (new or late used) include the Acura TL, Toyota Avalon, Lexus ES330. In essence a 3500# 4-door sedan with over 200 hp and mid-end torque, reliability, leather and the niceties. $35,000 is a reasonable price range. In that class, the HAH offers similar performance (not as good as the TL), almost as good but perfectly as fine interior and comfort. Given that choice the Accord comes in nicely. The hybrid has the advantage of 20 - 45% better fuel economy. I've done the math, at today's prices I will never re-coup in gas savings the difference in price (in 7 years I break even with the V-6 Accord - just in time to buy a battery). However, I am not confident that today's prices will last (there are any number of Middle East scenarios), and at gas at $4.00 to $5.00 / gallon (Europe's prices) it makes a difference in a hurry. At $4.00 / gal it takes less than 4 years. So I am trying to have it both ways - have my near-performance near-luxury car and hedge my bets on oil. A compromise but a decent one. Besides, it is new, hybrid technology is needed and I want to encourage them to build more.
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