Honda Accord Hybrid - worth the extra $$$? - READ ONLY

223 messages, Last post on Feb 07, 2006 at 6:12 PM

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#119 of 223 Re: [explorerx4]COUNTER POINT CULLIGANMAN [railroadjames] by explorerx4 Mar 07, 2005 (5:21 pm)
Replying to: railroadjames (Mar 05, 2005 8:50 pm) my sister has a gen2 prius, which i have driven several times. it's a nice car. i like it, i just can't justify the money for it. it's car i would drive about 10k miles per year. i have a focus that gets about 75% of the gas mileage, but cost about 10k less. that what i meant about the economic benefit. as far as the hah goes, i'd rather give up the 15hp and have a moonroof. maybe i'm just showing my age. Replies to this message: railroadjames (Mar 07, 2005 6:11 pm) xcel (Mar 08, 2005 7:27 am) gagrice (Mar 08, 2005 7:55 am) tempusvn (Mar 08, 2005 7:59 am) railroadjames (Mar 08, 2005 5:01 pm) and 8 more...
#120 of 223 Re: My misunderstanding [pf_flyer] by backy Mar 07, 2005 (5:24 pm)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Mar 07, 2005 12:57 pm) Not that the hybrid version should have to pay back the premium in a year, but my cost to own/operate over the time I plan to keep the vehicle has to be in the same ballpark for me to consider one version over another. I expect this is not an uncommon opinion, but it is intriguing to me. When I see cars on the dealer showfloor with special alloy wheels priced at $4000, or even a V6 or V8 model of a car priced a few thousand over a car with a smaller (more fuel efficient) engine, I wonder if the buyers think about recouping the price difference over time. Or is this just a hybrid phenomenon--that people expect to recoup the price premium over the life of ownership, even though the hybrid provides benefits that are hard to put a pricetag on, e.g. better acceleration (HAH), uniqueness(for the Prius in particular), exclusivity, or "greeness."
#121 of 223 COUNTER POINT CULLIGANMAN [railroadjames] [explorerx4] by railroadjames Mar 07, 2005 (6:11 pm)
Replying to: explorerx4 (Mar 07, 2005 5:21 pm) A Ford Focus is a decent car but it just isn't in a league with the Prius. If you doubt me compare interior space, equipment, premium extras and even the warrantees. Also take into consideration the reputation of the two. Resale is a factor and C.R.'s stats tell another story as to which car stands the tallest. If you drove the Prius as I have driven the Focus then we both know which car wins hands down. Cost difference being addressed now. Yes you pay more for the Prius but you get so much more. Even the sound system is an up grade over the Focus. Luggage space is a win with the Prius and a surprise to boot with the hidden compartment below the rear storage. It holds alot of extras. The Prius can go around 500 miles on a tank. Try that with a Focus. How many critics have given the Focus the accolades that the Prius has acquired these last several months? With all due respect to the Focus, it's a bit generic in comparison. You get what you pay for. That's why I didn't mind parting with the extra $$$$ for the Prius. It really wasn't that bad too. About $645.00 more than a Nissan Altima that I almost bought. Stying has to count for something. The Prius is just sharp! Culliganman(Oil estimaters say gas will go up 20 cents by the end of March) Replies to this message: xcel (Mar 08, 2005 7:27 am) gagrice (Mar 08, 2005 7:55 am) tempusvn (Mar 08, 2005 7:59 am) railroadjames (Mar 08, 2005 5:01 pm) midnightcowboy (Mar 09, 2005 6:46 am) and 7 more...
#122 of 223 Well by pf_flyer HOST Mar 08, 2005 (5:50 am)
I think the reason the word "recoup" comes into play when we're talking about hybrids is that the whole point of the hybrid is increased efficiency/better mileage. It's supposed to be cheaper (and cleaner) to operate. But all that goes down the dumper if the cost to buy the hybrid is going to eat up all my operational savings. Having to be on the edge of ANY technology is always going to hit you in the wallet. To use computers as an example, if you've wanted the latest and greatest over the last 15 year, you probably were going to plunk down $2500-$3000 for your system. 6 months to a year later, when there's a NEW latest and greatest that will cost that much, the same computer system will be MUCH more reasonable. I don't think it's any different with evolving automotive technology. The current offerings of hybrids are NOT the final answer, just steps along the way. And if the current vehicles hit the mainstream and come down in price, the NEXT advance in design will be the pricey option and we'll have topics like Hybrid Gen I vs Hybrid Gen II PF Flyer Host Pickups & News & Views Message Boards The MAZDA MANIA Chat is on tonight. Hope to see YOU there! Check out the schedule Replies to this message: backy (Mar 08, 2005 8:10 am)
#123 of 223 Re: COUNTER POINT CULLIGANMAN [railroadjames] [explorerx4] [railroadjames] by xcel Mar 08, 2005 (7:27 am)
Replying to: railroadjames (Mar 07, 2005 6:11 pm) Hi Culliganman: If you doubt me compare interior space, equipment, premium extras … Luggage space is a win with the Prius and a surprise to boot with the hidden compartment below the rear storage. It holds alot of extras. Size: Passenger Volume (cu. ft.)/Luggage Capacity (cu. ft.)/Total (cu. ft.) Ford Focus ZX3/ZX5: 94.4/18.6/113 Toyota Prius II: 96.2/16.1/112.3 The Ford Focus is the larger of the two. Even the sound system is an up grade over the Focus. The stock Ford Focus SES’ radio includes speed sensitive volume, 6-CD-Changer, and MP3 player capability and sounds better then the stock Prius’ system. If you upgrade either, the Ford Focus’ Sony system has an 8” Sub. I do not know how that compares to the upgraded JBL in the Prius II but I bet the Ford sounds better given those that have commented on the upgraded Prius II system. Although a Ford Focus ZX5 loaded up (leather - heated seats, powered sunroof, TCS, ABS, Side Bags, etc.) can be had for < $18K w/ the $2K rebate. I wouldn’t purchase one at that price myself but another 3 or 4 months when the $3 - $5K rebates are available might make a big difference to some? At that point, the only thing you have going for the Prius II in terms of TCO is FE and the optional lux amenities that take a Prius II up into the $27K range. $27K is a lot of $’s for a compact no matter the performance or FE. The Prius can go around 500 miles on a tank. Try that with a Focus. My 2.3 L Ranger XLT has a range of over 600 miles from most tanks (16.5 gallon cap) in an average of 30 degree temps throughout the winter. http://www.greenhybrid.com/compare/mileage/car/380 Why wouldn’t a Focus 2.0e with a 6 mpg higher highway rating and just a 1.5 gallon cap tank shortfall? I would say your 500 mile range in the Prius II is poor at best. How many critics have given the Focus the accolades that the Prius has acquired these last several months? The Focus has made Car and Driver’s 10 Best for how many years in a row now? Handling: Ford Focus is easily the best of the two. Performance: Ford Focus with either the 2.0e or the 2.3 is by far the faster of the two. Good Luck Wayne R. Gerdes Replies to this message: gagrice (Mar 08, 2005 7:55 am) tempusvn (Mar 08, 2005 7:59 am) railroadjames (Mar 08, 2005 5:01 pm) midnightcowboy (Mar 09, 2005 6:46 am) gagrice (Mar 09, 2005 7:52 am) railroadjames (Mar 09, 2005 9:44 am) and 3 more... cohenfive (Apr 19, 2005 11:06 am) and 1 more...
#124 of 223 Re: COUNTER POINT CULLIGANMAN [railroadjames] [explorerx4] [railroadjames] [xcel] by gagrice Mar 08, 2005 (7:55 am)
Replying to: xcel (Mar 08, 2005 7:27 am) Ford Focus is easily the best of the two. Ford also gives a better drivetrain warranty than the Toyota Prius. Five years 100,000 miles for the Focus. They must be more reliable. Oh, plus an inch and a half more headroom in the back seat, for those tall teenagers. $8k buys a lot of gas probably enough for the life of the Focus. That means the Prius starts out 100k miles or more behind the Focus. I believe you can get the Focus PZEV rated in CA.
#125 of 223 Re: COUNTER POINT CULLIGANMAN [railroadjames] [explorerx4] [railroadjames] [xcel] by tempusvn Mar 08, 2005 (7:59 am)
Replying to: xcel (Mar 08, 2005 7:27 am) "The Focus has made Car and Driver’s 10 Best for how many years in a row now?" The Focus also rated very high in Consumer Reports Auto Issue this year, until Today. Today Consumer Reports today took the unprecedented step of changing one of their best picks (Focus) to an "Unacceptable" rating due to newly released IIHS Crash Tests showing poor side impact protection in the Focus. I add this even though the message I'm replying to was completely Off Topic in this thread (having nothing to do with the Accord), because we can probably go ahead and agree at this point that the Focus and Accord are not comparable.
#126 of 223 OK - we are WELL off the topic of the HAH by Sylvia STAFF Mar 08, 2005 (8:03 am)
Let's keep the discussion specifically about the HAH please.
#127 of 223 Re: Well [pf_flyer] by backy Mar 08, 2005 (8:10 am)
Replying to: pf_flyer (Mar 08, 2005 5:50 am) ... the whole point of the hybrid is increased efficiency/better mileage. Why must that be the case? Is there some law that says the only purpose for hybrid technology is increased fuel efficiency/better mileage? How about more power from the same displacement ICE? Cleaner emissions? There may be a perception that improved fuel economy is the only purpose of a hybrid because that was the focus (small f) of the first commercial hybrids. But it doesn't mean it must always be so. The most recent hybrids, starting with the HAH and continuing with the Highlander and RX400h, will offer improved fuel economy but also more power. What is wrong with that?
#128 of 223 I'm in full agreement with Backy... by larsb Mar 08, 2005 (8:45 am)
"hybridization" does not and never has completely and only meant "huge miles per gallon" numbers. With Toyota planning on a Hybrid version of ALL their vehicles within 10 years (they have repeatedly said that) and Honda repeatedly saying "we can and will put our IMA system in ANY VEHICLE in our car line", that alone should signify that "hybridization" means more than just cars which get 45+ MPG. More torque, more power, improved MPG, cleaner emissions. That is what hybridization does.