Last post on Sep 07, 2011 at 7:13 PM
You are in the Buick Lucerne
What is this discussion about?
Buick Lucerne, Sedan
#1247 of 2217 Re: 3.6 [poncho167]
Apr 07, 2006 (6:30 am)
I don't know what direction GM will take, but their current product line for cars is not working. They need to bring out something new and exciting. The latest Motor Trend suggests that the W-platform will be replaced by a RWD platform that will make the Camaro affordable. That suggests that the Impala, LaCrosse and perhaps the Grand Prix will become RWD sedans. This does not mean the Lucerne and DTS (large FWD sedans) will move to a RWD platform.
However, the Lucerne/DTS platform is basically the same platform that the 1995 Aurora/Riviera were on. These two models started production in early 1994. That make the basic Lucerne/DTS platform 12 years old at this time, and in 5 years it will be 17 years old.
Since they have announced a 6T75 version of the six speed automatic, good for engines up to 300 lb-ft of torque, it does make some sense that they may use it on the Lucerne/DTS, but this may depend on just how much longer they remain in production, which depends on how sales are. I think that if they are to remain in production for 5 years, they need to sell a total of 1 million copies to be profitable.
It does not make much sense to me to put a 270 hp V6 in the Lucerne and still keep the 275 hp V8. I do think that a pushrod V6 makes sense for the base Lucerne, then perhaps a DOHC V6 for the CXL, and the V8 for the CXS. But if the 240 hp 3.6 is used in the CXL, then the CX should have less hp, perhaps the 3.5 V6. Otherwise, the 240 hp 3.9 V6 to replace the 3800 makes sense. This all assumes that the Lucerne will be in production through the 2010 model year (5 full years of production - 500,000 to 700,000 total copies).
I really think that GM needs to bring out RWD large sedans to get serious attention from consumers. Right now the Lucerne and DTS are only attractive to current owners of large FWD cars - that is current Buick or Deville owners. Neither of these cars will bring new buyers into Buick or Cadillac dealerships, and that is what GM needs, new buyers.
#1248 of 2217 5 speed autom. for FWD??? Re: 3.6 [poncho167]
Apr 07, 2006 (6:41 am)
"As far as the GM/Ford developed six speed goes it also wouldn't make sense not to use it in most of the cars. There is a five speed they can use as well, but the six speed transmission will spread across the line. "
I am not aware of a 5 speed automatic trans. for FWD at GM.
For RWD, yes, 1 is currently used by Caddy in the STSs (except STS-v) for example, but not for FWD. And I don't see 1 at gmpowertrain . .
6 speeds, no waiting?
Apr 07, 2006 (6:43 am)
I doubt the Lucerne or DTS or LaCrosse will ever see 2009 much less 2010 in their current architectures. Both cars were majors but heavily kept the old architectures. While they may not be profitable over their lifetimes due to lower than expected volumes (to be seen) they were meant to be short term models.
Epsilon 2 will be the W car replacement as far as a high volume midsize vehicle to compete with the likes of Camry/Accord/Lexus ES. Buick needs a product in that size segment and it will probably be the LaCrosse/2009. The Large car is a dieing market and I see GM using a platform that is out there. If Zeta can be big enough then it will be the one, if not then Sigma. Or possibly the Lambda could be modified but I doubt it.
#1250 of 2217 Re: 5 speed autom. for FWD??? Re: 3.6 [rayainsw]
Apr 07, 2006 (6:45 am)
Correct GM decided to leapfrog the competition and go right to the 6 speed and skip all the development costs of the 5 speed. Unfortunately they are still behind!
#1251 of 2217 Re: 3.6 [62vetteefp]
Apr 07, 2006 (6:58 am)
Motor Trend indicates that the Impala and LaCrosse will be replaced by a mid-sized RWD models that will also make a Camaro platform affordable.
The Saturn Aura will be a FWD mid-size sedan. It makes some sense that some version of this could be sold at either Chevy_Cadillac or Buick_Pontiac_GMC dealers. Motor Trend's forcasting is not always accurate, but they do seem to get inside information from time to time.
Buick is getting the Enclave (perhaps called an Estate xxx) in the very near future. Perhaps the 4T75 is for this vehicle. The Enclave may replace the Lucerne.
Apr 07, 2006 (7:30 am)
Enclave is a HUGE crossover to replace the Rainier/Miniva/Rendezvous. It is bigger than a Tahoe. Could never replace the Lucerne's market. BUT they could kill off the Lucerne due to very low market need (large inexpensive cars are dieing off).
It is very possible that the LaCrosse moves to the Zeta but doubtful. Chevy has announced that the Impala will get larger and very probable it will be RWD. Sure seems like the Lucerne could be on the same architecture since the LeSabre and Impala used to be on the same architecture many years ago.
Aura is the Epsilon 2. Malibu will also become Epsilon 2 as will the G6. Just not positive on the LaCrosse.
#1253 of 2217 Re: 3.6 [sls002]
Apr 07, 2006 (7:35 am)
The Saturn Aura will be a FWD mid-size sedan. It makes some sense that some version of this could be sold at either Chevy_Cadillac or Buick_Pontiac_GMC dealers.
They do already don't they? I thought that the Saturn was to be late to the party on the Saab 9-3 platform? Don't know the correct GM name of it but isn't the Aura the Chevy Malibu Maxx SS and the Pontiac G6 the same platform?
And one other comment to the Gentleman that said the LuCerne is not attracting NEW customers only current Buick or Caddie owners. Here's one! that's why I'm on this list!
First time ever I have a keen interest in a Buick.
Apr 07, 2006 (7:44 am)
Since GM cannot make money on their small cars they are going to be engineered in a market that can. Platforms going elsewhere: Aveo (Daewoo Gamma), Cobalt(Europe Delta), Malibu(Europe, Epsilon 2). I think everything else will remain herewith the possible exception of a Holden platform.
#1255 of 2217 Large cars are hot!
Apr 07, 2006 (8:36 am)
The large car market is sizzling these days.
Nearly 9 thousand Buick Lucernes were sold last month, and it is outselling both the Park AVenue and LeSabre from a year ago.
The Chrysler 300 is selling very well.
The Caddy DTS outsells the Deville.
a Lucerne review:
#1256 of 2217 Re: Large cars are hot! [celica8]
Apr 07, 2006 (9:00 am)
All this speculation about the future of the lucerne seems a bit odd. The car just came out. I just stopped by Buick/Pont/gmc dealer and the sales manager said they are selling tons of the lucerne -- as in dozens a week. He said they're hardly on the lot before they're gone. Granted, this is in the midwest, so, as we know, people around here aren't as uber cool as they are in, say, L.A.