Last post on Feb 08, 2012 at 7:57 AM
You are in the Sedans
What is this discussion about?
BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, Volvo S60 R, Subaru Legacy, Audi S4, Mazda MAZDASPEED MAZDA6, Sedan
#9 of 857 AWD Dilemma
Jan 08, 2005 (1:58 am)
buddhabman: Since the as per the claims of the respective companies (as found in brochures) Subaru introduced AWD wagons in 1971 and Audi in 1980, I guess Subaru was first to market at least!
waygrabow: I get the Consumer Reports (along with Automobile and AutoWeek). The 2005 Buying Guide does give the A4 an average reliability rating (therby it is not precluded from being recommended). The Subaru Outback gets an above average rating on reliability. Generally AWD vehicles are higher-maintenance items, even Subaru, but the costs (including inconvenience) are significantly higher with the VW group!
Notwithstanding my rationale above, I would have leased an S4 last week if I could have done so. Unfortunately, I am 15-18 months away from a purchase. The dealership had two 2004 S4's (V8) with stick shifts. It had all of the do-dads I like (e.g., premium sound) and none I dislike (I don't care for navigation systems, for example). The MSRP was over 53k but was marked down to 44k! It was VERY attractive for a lease! Maintenance is free for 4 years, 50 k miles!
All this proves that when the product is great, the heart rules the head!
#10 of 857 Re: Audi #1 ? [natethomas]
Jan 09, 2005 (6:38 pm)
The GT I looked loaded as close as I could come to my A4 1.8 Quattro 2004 was only a few grand less than the Audi. I paid 30k for a list price of 34,165. It had 300 miles and was certified and free maintanence for 45k. Yes the GT is quicker, 250 hp vs 170 hp but that isn't the whole story. Subs are good but fit, finish, detail, looks, the feel of the car, interio design...need I say more? BEsides in Sept the GT were new and dealers weren't giving much off, so sometimes you go with the better "value."
Jan 10, 2005 (12:19 pm)
I'd give credit to Subaru for implementing 4WD on a car platform first, and to Audi for AWD.
Subarus came earlier but they had traditional center locking differential-style 4WD, low range even. They jacked up the suspension and even added skid plates. The world's truly first sport utility wagon was the 1973 Subaru Leone 4WD.
Audi pioneered AWD (as opposed to 4WD), though, with a center differential that allowed full-time use of the system even on non-slippery surfaces.
The reality is that both have extensive AWD experience and offer some of the best systems in the world at any price.
Nav is rumored as an option for the GT this year, and I'd expect at least 3-4 additional features in the 2006 Subaru. But if you must have the goodies, Audi offers those for a bit more money. Only you can decide if they're worth it to you.
Jan 11, 2005 (10:53 am)
"Consumer Reports recently put the Audi A4 on its list of most reliable cars, so their surveys apparently don't agree with this impression. "
- Good to hear the Audi is making strides. The previous year's CR report on the A4 was below average reliability. Also, many of Audi's other cars are below average in reliability. I am hoping Audi is making strides in improving their whole line. Considering that I have seen a couple of new S4s (did not have a license plat yet) with rear break lights and other lights out (as well as exhaust tail pipes bouncing around). I am still curious about this.
#13 of 857 Subaru is the Japanesse version of Audi
Jan 12, 2005 (8:51 am)
If you really think about it these to car companies are more a like than most - they are known as non-comformist cars and not the popular car from there country. When you drive one of these cars you also make a statment. I've grown up on Subarus (my dad owns part of dealership) and my first new car was a subbie.. Great car no complaints.... I now drive an A4 and there is a difference in how it feels and I love the looks - subbie is becoming some what more comformist - baiscally it comes down to personal tatse I like rings over the stars and that is me.
You won't go wrong with either car.
#14 of 857 Re: Subaru is the Japanesse version of Audi [jplyman]
Jan 12, 2005 (10:32 pm)
I agree with your comments in general. While the similarity between Audi and Subaru stems from AWD, there are other parallels also that we could draw. I felt (some 10 years ago) that Subaru and Saabs were alike in that both were iconoclastic. How was I to know that they would both become more mainstream, and seem to be morphing into one as we speak! I also saw parallels between the German and Japanese marques that may not be as true today. I saw Toyota as being modeled after Mercedes (Solidity), Nissan & Mazda after BMW (Performance), and Honda after Audi (Form follows Function). Some of it was design and some of it was related to the character of the car.
Again, just my 2c!
Jan 13, 2005 (5:57 am)
Subaru has characteristics of Audi (AWD), Porsche (boxer engines), and Saab (general quirkiness).
But not the repair bills.
Jan 13, 2005 (2:03 pm)
...for an S4 sounds like an excellent deal. My A4 goes in for scheduled servicing in about 6 weeks. If there are any 44k S4's sitting around the lot, I might just see if I could do a deal. The current B6 S4 is one of the nicest rides on the road.
As far as the new Subie's go, the new GT is very nice indeed and I bet that the '06 sees a jump in hp, which will put the squeeze (however slightly) on BMW & Audi.
My Audi has been excellent ('02 Avant) but I bet that, say, six or seven years down the road that Subie will be costing less to maintain.
#17 of 857 BMW xi vs. Quattro
Jan 14, 2005 (5:56 am)
My previous car was an A4 1.8T Quattro. I currently drive a 325i mainly because I wanted a BMW and thought that the AWD system in the 325xi had more drawbacks for me than advantages over RWD. This might change in the next-gen AWD that BMW offers on the new 3-series. Actually, if BMW offered the 325i with Audi's Quattro system then I might have gone that route, but for now the E46 3-series is much more suited to its traditional RWD setup.
By the way, I live in SE Michigan where we do get snow in the winter, but generally not the blowouts that you'd get out in the Great Plains states or the mountains, where AWD is much more of a real necessity. So far I'm doing fine with the RWD on the standard all-season tires. The DSC/DTC helps a lot in this regard, and if I start having any problems a set of full snow tires would probably take care of it.
#18 of 857 Re: The Audi Dilemma [knr5]
Jan 22, 2005 (3:40 pm)
The other issue with the new Audi is that the new 6 cylinder is at first only coming out with an automatic transmission. The manual will only be available on the 4 cyclinder and the S4. What a bummer.