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Ultimate AWD Sports Sedans

828 messages,  Last post on Oct 03, 2009 at 9:40 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, Volvo S60 R, Subaru Legacy, Audi S4, Mazda MAZDASPEED MAZDA6, Sedan


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#720 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [circlew] by shipo
Mar 20, 2008 (3:52 am)
Reply

Replying to: circlew (Mar 20, 2008 3:26 am)

The performance difference? Probably very little. There was a study done eight years ago or so that showed that handling performance peaked with 16" to 17" wheel/tire assebmlies. Beyond that point, the incrementally higher centrifugal mass of the rim would detract from handling performance. Geez, I've even heard of folks who track their car and bring their racing sets with them in the back seat. So? He-he, well the whole "so" bit is that they remove their 18" street set and mount their 16" track set. Go figure
 
Best Regards,
Shipo
#721 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [shipo] by circlew
Mar 20, 2008 (4:00 am)
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Replying to: shipo (Mar 20, 2008 3:52 am)

Hmmm....I figured as much but coming from you, I know better now. Why spend the extra dinero? Never appealed to me. Right sizing is the goal, IMO.
 
Regards,
OW
#722 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [circlew] by shipo
Mar 20, 2008 (4:14 am)
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Replying to: circlew (Mar 20, 2008 4:00 am)

I suppose I should temper my most recent comments by saying that I suppose it is possible for some new tire technology coupled with an ultra light set of racing rims to bend the rules by an inch or two, however, I've yet to see any evidence that that has actually happened.
 
My personal take on it is that anything beyond 17" is simply bling.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo
#723 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [shipo] by bruceomega
Mar 20, 2008 (4:28 am)
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Replying to: shipo (Mar 20, 2008 4:14 am)

Thanks to all for the responses.
#724 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [shipo] by ateixeira
Mar 20, 2008 (12:35 pm)
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Replying to: shipo (Mar 19, 2008 6:06 pm)

Thanks for crunching those.
 
I know that Subaru specifies the circumference (2*pi*r = pi*diam) must be within 0.25".
 
So that 535xi is outside of Subaru's tolerances. The difference in circumference would be 0.13" * 3.14 = 0.41". Well over the 0.25" Subaru would allow.
 
The interesting thing is this probably means BMW's AWD system allows for more wheelslip before it would react, i.e. it seems to have looser tolerances for rotational differences from axle to axle.
#725 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [ateixeira] by kyfdx HOST
Mar 20, 2008 (1:57 pm)
Reply

Replying to: ateixeira (Mar 20, 2008 12:35 pm)

That would mean their tolerances have to be within 3/10ths of a percent? Do you think that's realistic in the real world?
 
I'd think you could find variances larger than that on new tires of the same model..
 
You sure the 0.25 inches isn't diameter?
#726 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [kyfdx] by ateixeira
Mar 21, 2008 (5:30 am)
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Replying to: kyfdx (Mar 20, 2008 1:57 pm)

Pretty sure it's circumference.
 
That's Subaru's specification, at least.
 
People complain when they blow out one tire (beyond repair), because if you have more than 10,000 miles on your other 3, you need a new set, or you have to shave the new tires to match the others, or find a used tire with similar wear.
 
Most people just buy 4 new tires.
#727 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [shipo] by bruceomega
Mar 21, 2008 (11:48 am)
Reply

Replying to: shipo (Mar 20, 2008 4:14 am)

Shipo,
 
If 17" is an ideal size, does that mean, in your opinion, that if I upgraded from the standard 17" wheels on my 535Xi to the optional 18" wheels and appropriately sized tires (probably non staggered per your comments) that it will not improve the handling of my car?
 
Thanks
Bruce
#728 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [bruceomega] by shipo
Mar 21, 2008 (4:49 pm)
Reply

Replying to: bruceomega (Mar 21, 2008 11:48 am)

If I remember correctly, handling performance peaked with the 16" and 17" tire sizes and then slowly rolled off from there. Regarding adding the 18" optional tires on your car, I rather suspect that you'll probably not notice much of a difference either way, errr, unless you're going to be taking it to the track.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo
#729 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [bruceomega] by ateixeira
Mar 24, 2008 (8:20 am)
Reply

Replying to: bruceomega (Mar 21, 2008 11:48 am)

It may sharpen the steering feel a bit, and have less sidewall deflection, but the ride will feel more harsh and you may have passed the point of diminishing returns by then.
 
A friend had a Z3 with big wheels and bent 3 rims. No kidding.
 
They're expensive to replace, and in some cases he even had to wait for a special order. Tires are also more expensive.
 
Finally, it adds to your unsprung weight, compared to a lighter 16" or 17" alloy of the same construction.

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