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Ultimate AWD Sports Sedans

828 messages,  Last post on Oct 03, 2009 at 9:40 PM

You are in the Sedans Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens

What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, Volvo S60 R, Subaru Legacy, Audi S4, Mazda MAZDASPEED MAZDA6, Sedan


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#715 of 828
Re: staggered vs non-staggered wheels/tires in AWD [ateixeira] by shipo
Mar 19, 2008 (12:54 pm)
Reply

Replying to: ateixeira (Mar 19, 2008 10:49 am)

"I'm sure that's why tires are not staggered on the AWD models."
 
But they are. consider the following:
2008 328xi Sedan offers a $300 upgrade to the Sport Package. Said upgrade includes:
 - - 17 x 8.0 front, 17 x 8.5 rear; 225/45R-17 front, 255/40R-17 rear run-flat performance tires.
 
2008 328xi Sport Wagon offers a $300 upgrade to the Sport Package. Said upgrade includes:
 - - 17 x 8.0 front, 17 x 8.5 rear; 225/45R-17 front, 255/40R-17 rear run-flat performance tires.
 
2008 328xi Coupe offers a $600 upgrade to the Sport package. Said upgrade includes:
 - - 18 x 8.0 front, 18 x 8.5 rear; 225/40R-18 front, 255/35R-18 rear run-flat performance tires.
 
2008 335xi Sedan offers a $600 upgrade to the Sport package. Said upgrade includes:
 - - 18 x 8.0 front, 18 x 8.5 rear; 225/40R-18 front, 255/35R-18 rear run-flat performance tires.
 
2008 335xi Coupe offers a $600 upgrade to the Sport package. Said upgrade includes:
 - - 18 x 8.0 front, 18 x 8.5 rear; 225/40R-18 front, 255/35R-18 rear run-flat performance tires.
 
2008 535xi Sedan offers a $600 upgrade to the Sport package. Said upgrade includes:
 - - 18 x 8.0 front, 18 x 9.0 rear; 245/40R-18 front, 275/35R-18 rear run-flat performance tires
 
So, it would seem that every AWD version of the 3-Series and 5-Series save the 528xi can be had with staggered rubber. Go figure.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo
#716 of 828
Re: staggered vs non-staggered wheels/tires in AWD [shipo] by roadburner
Mar 19, 2008 (1:14 pm)
Reply

Replying to: shipo (Mar 19, 2008 12:54 pm)

So, it would seem that every AWD version of the 3-Series and 5-Series save the 528xi can be had with staggered rubber. Go figure.
 
I'm thinking that BMWs AWD system may get tweaked when staggered tires are fitted. Either that or the tires have an identical circumference. Otherwise the system would detect the difference in wheel rpm and interpret it as slippage.
#717 of 828
Re: staggered vs non-staggered wheels/tires in AWD [roadburner] by shipo
Mar 19, 2008 (4:46 pm)
Reply

Replying to: roadburner (Mar 19, 2008 1:14 pm)

While I haven't figured it out recently, the last time I checked, ALL BMWs with staggered tires used the virtually identical circumference tires front and rear.
 
I'll get my handy-dandy circumference calculator out and report back in a few minutes.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo
#718 of 828
Crunched tire numbers... by shipo
Mar 19, 2008 (6:06 pm)
Reply
Okay, here's how diameters lay out for the upgraded SP package tires on the "xi" models:
 
The 328xi Sedan and Sport Wagon:
 - - 225/45 R17 -- 24.97" (Front)
 - - 255/40 R17 -- 25.03" (Rear)
 - - Difference ------ 0.06"
 
The 328xi Coupe, 335xi Sedan and 335xi Coupe:
 - - 225/40 R18 -- 25.09" (Front)
 - - 255/35 R18 -- 25.03" (Rear)
 - - Difference ------ 0.06"
 
The 535xi Sedan:
 - - 245/40 R18 -- 25.72" (Front)
 - - 275/35 R18 -- 25.59" (Rear)
 - - Difference ------ 0.13"
 
I'm thinking that as the worst (from a difference perspective) of the above cars is thirteen-hundredths of an inch, they can be considered virtually identical as far as their overall diameter is concerned.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo
#719 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [shipo] by circlew
Mar 20, 2008 (3:26 am)
Reply

Replying to: shipo (Mar 19, 2008 6:06 pm)

Inherently, that's what I figured but you just proved it beyond a shadow of a doubt. Thanks, as always, for your insight.
 
BTW, what's the difference in performance between 17" and 18" wheels on the 3 series from your point of view?
 
Regards,
OW
#720 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [circlew] by shipo
Mar 20, 2008 (3:52 am)
Reply

Replying to: circlew (Mar 20, 2008 3:26 am)

The performance difference? Probably very little. There was a study done eight years ago or so that showed that handling performance peaked with 16" to 17" wheel/tire assebmlies. Beyond that point, the incrementally higher centrifugal mass of the rim would detract from handling performance. Geez, I've even heard of folks who track their car and bring their racing sets with them in the back seat. So? He-he, well the whole "so" bit is that they remove their 18" street set and mount their 16" track set. Go figure
 
Best Regards,
Shipo
#721 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [shipo] by circlew
Mar 20, 2008 (4:00 am)
Reply

Replying to: shipo (Mar 20, 2008 3:52 am)

Hmmm....I figured as much but coming from you, I know better now. Why spend the extra dinero? Never appealed to me. Right sizing is the goal, IMO.
 
Regards,
OW
#722 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [circlew] by shipo
Mar 20, 2008 (4:14 am)
Reply

Replying to: circlew (Mar 20, 2008 4:00 am)

I suppose I should temper my most recent comments by saying that I suppose it is possible for some new tire technology coupled with an ultra light set of racing rims to bend the rules by an inch or two, however, I've yet to see any evidence that that has actually happened.
 
My personal take on it is that anything beyond 17" is simply bling.
 
Best Regards,
Shipo
#723 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [shipo] by bruceomega
Mar 20, 2008 (4:28 am)
Reply

Replying to: shipo (Mar 20, 2008 4:14 am)

Thanks to all for the responses.
#724 of 828
Re: Crunched tire numbers... [shipo] by ateixeira
Mar 20, 2008 (12:35 pm)
Reply

Replying to: shipo (Mar 19, 2008 6:06 pm)

Thanks for crunching those.
 
I know that Subaru specifies the circumference (2*pi*r = pi*diam) must be within 0.25".
 
So that 535xi is outside of Subaru's tolerances. The difference in circumference would be 0.13" * 3.14 = 0.41". Well over the 0.25" Subaru would allow.
 
The interesting thing is this probably means BMW's AWD system allows for more wheelslip before it would react, i.e. it seems to have looser tolerances for rotational differences from axle to axle.

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