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Ultimate AWD Sports Sedans

828 messages,  Last post on Oct 03, 2009 at 9:40 PM

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What is this discussion about? BMW 3 Series, Audi A4, Volvo S60 R, Subaru Legacy, Audi S4, Mazda MAZDASPEED MAZDA6, Sedan

#422 of 828 Re: Enough talk about unreliable VW's (audi) [6sptl] by ateixeira Aug 29, 2007 (12:11 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Aug 29, 2007 10:43 am) Perhaps the $50k asking price was too high. Or the TL is too close in terms of performance, too.   Seriously, though, a used one ought to be a bargain in a couple of years...
#423 of 828 Re: Enough talk about unreliable VW's (audi) [6sptl] by habitat1 Aug 29, 2007 (5:52 pm)
Replying to: 6sptl (Aug 29, 2007 10:43 am) The RL did and still does outperform all of its 6 cylinder AWD competition.   Say what? The RL doesn't "outperform" a FWD TL 6 speed. In acceleration, handling, braking or fuel efficiency. And barely outperforms it in wet/snow conditions. The 530ix was superior in all respects, if only barely so in acceleration. The new 535ix should pretty much crush the RL in that regard. Even the E350 4-matic feels like a tighter handling car to me.   You are partly right though, Acura advertised the RL as a "super handling" sport sedan to the point of falsely raising expectations. Unfortunately, the TL 6-speed, with a sport suspension, Brembo brakes, and 500 less pounds comes closer to delivering the goods.   I do believe Acura is capable of producing a world class sport sedan, if they chose to. The Honda S2000 I owned was very competitive with the nearly twice as expensive Porsche Boxster S. There is no reason that Acura couldn't produce a serious 5 series competitor, if they would grab those S2000 engineers and replace the underachievers assigned to the RL. Replies to this message: 6sptl (Aug 31, 2007 8:55 am) habitat1 (Aug 31, 2007 10:02 am) lilengineerboy (Aug 31, 2007 1:00 pm)
#424 of 828 Mitsubishi: The next stage in AWD systems? by hunter312 Aug 29, 2007 (11:10 pm)
I am inclined to agree that Audi do probably have the best AWD systems in the business at the moment. However what has caught my attention ever since the unveiling of the Prototype X and subsequently the Mitsubishi Lancer Evolution X is that its new S-AWC (Super-All Wheel Control) system appears to be more advanced.   From all indications through articles and videos, you can directly influence the torque distribution to the wheels via a joystick-like button mounted on the steering wheel. Edmunds even tested it on an Evolution IX test mule and said it handles superbly.   Since Mitsubishi was also active in rallying with AWD/4WD systems albeit later than Audi, do you guys think their new system could usurp the title of best AWD/4WD system from Audi?   I'm also definitely looking forward to the 2008/9 Mitsubishi Lancer Ralliart - since its cheaper and easier on fuel with the Evo IX's AWD system and slightly less HP. What do you guys think of it?
#426 of 828 Audi Quattro by ateixeira Aug 30, 2007 (9:40 am)
Quattro can actually mean different things, as the TT gets the FWD based system from the Golf lineup, while the A4 and others get a Torsen.   It's funny, though, Torsens work great on the track, and when you have traction, but few people realize that on ice they are completely useless. With no traction they work like an open differential, and fail completely.   Torsens have a bias ratio. Audi's is 2 to 1. That means it can send twice as much power to one side if it senses more grip than the other side.   The formula would be 67% to the axle with more traction, 33% to the axle with less.   However, if one side has zero traction, all the power leaks out that side. Two times zero is zero. So all the power leaks out, just like an open diff.   Torsens fail completely on frictionless surfaces. They are great on the track when you DO have traction, but they are useless on ice.   Audi gets around it by using traction control to brake the slipping wheels. But the Torsen still fails to transfer power in a sustained manner.   There is a funny video on YouTube, staged by BMW. They turned off the traction control and put one axle of an Audi A8 on rollers. The other axle was on solid ground, clean and dry cement. It failed to move forward even an inch.   That's how a Torsen works. All the power leaked to the axle that had no-traction, i.e. rollers. AWD failure was 100%.   For that reason, a Torsen (Audi Quattro) is not the best, in my opinion. Replies to this message: circlew (Aug 30, 2007 6:23 pm) lilengineerboy (Aug 31, 2007 4:52 am) ateixeira (Aug 31, 2007 6:07 am) 610looper (Aug 31, 2007 12:21 pm) ateixeira (Sep 04, 2007 8:34 am)
#427 of 828 Re: Audi Quattro [ateixeira] by circlew Aug 30, 2007 (6:23 pm)
Replying to: ateixeira (Aug 30, 2007 9:40 am) IMO, you are correct. The ultimate AWD sport sedan (for the money) at the moment is the BMW 335 xi. PERIOD!   Regards, OW
#430 of 828 Re: Audi Quattro [ateixeira] by lilengineerboy Aug 31, 2007 (4:52 am)
Replying to: ateixeira (Aug 30, 2007 9:40 am) HMM maybe Audi should go back to the original Quattro, with the manual locking diffs. Replies to this message: ateixeira (Aug 31, 2007 6:07 am)
#431 of 828 Re: Audi Quattro [lilengineerboy] by ateixeira Aug 31, 2007 (6:07 am)
Replying to: lilengineerboy (Aug 31, 2007 4:52 am) Yeah, the marketing term "Quattro" has referred to many different things over the years.   At one point they used THREE Torsens. A dream on the track. A nightmare on ice.   The TT I mentioned earlier uses a FWD-based Haldex. Some Fords use the same technology.   It's become like "Kleenex", a generic term for their AWD, but it can mean many different things.

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