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Sedans Ultimate AWD Sports Sedans
828 messages, Last post on Oct 03, 2009 at 9:40 PM
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Replying to: dhamilton (May 09, 2006 7:37 am) Lap times were 54.9 for the Subaru (quickest), 56.7 for the MazdaSpeed (2nd slowest). Mazda had more lateral Gs, but Subaru won the slalom easily. -juice |
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I was refering to the Edmunds comparison where the Subie out accelerated the Mazda but was slower thrue the slalom, and had lower skid pad numbers. The Mazda also outbraked the Subaru.
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Replying to: dhamilton (May 09, 2006 11:23 am) among three editors, the Subaru won with one, the Mazda won with another and the third called it a draw -juice |
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Replying to: dhamilton (May 09, 2006 11:23 am) xplorx4, "MAZDASPEED Mazda6" #1069, 9 May 2006 6:39 pm He's not alone, either. The 2.3 engine has a lot of new technology, it was the first Direct Injection turbo sold in the US, plus the smaller engine is pretty stressed. Subaru's EJ257 is more proven. -juice |
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By the title of this forum, I must be in the minority that thinks that AWD and "sport" do not coexist in the price range ($35k to $60k+/-) that I am looking at. After test driving quite a few sedans and coupes over the past 3-4 weeks, most fall well short of my "sport" desires, given that I will be giving up a Boxster S come September. But NONE of the AWD models I've driven impress me. I realize that I can't expect sports car handling and performance out of a sedan or coupe - no lessons needed there. But in the case of BMW, Audi, Mercedes and a couple of others, the AWD versions carry considerably more weight and body roll than their sport tuned RWD counterparts. Perhaps with the exception of Audi, where it is a nose heavy FWD counterpart. But still, anyone that has driven an M3 next to an S4 can't possibly claim that the S4 handles or feels anywhere near as tight and responsive on the dry pavement (which I will be driving 90%-95%+ of the time). BMW's 3 and 5 series "x" versions are serious dissapointments compared to their RWD cousins, IMO. What am I missing here? Do posters here actually think heavy AWD is preferable to lighter, better handling RWD? Or is it just that they are willing to accept that significant compromise to have more stability and bragging rights for 5-10% of the time? I have relocated from North Carolina to Boston and want something that is a little more all season versitile, but I don't want to handicap a car with a non-sporty heavy demeaner and higher gas mileage for the privaledge. P.S. I can even make the same case for the Porsche 911S C2 vs. C4. Sure, when you get up to 450+ hp, the 911 TT doesn't suffer too much from the extra AWD weight, but I know of may enthusiasts who much prefer the handling feel of the RWD GT3. |
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I have both. A Miata and a Forester. The Miata is more fun in the dry, but it's downright scary when it's wet, and I refuse to drive in the snow at all. Seriously, I'll park it and take the subway home, and have my wife pick me up in her Subaru Legacy. Also, driving on the edge, it's a sharp edge, and you're more likely to exceed it. Lift the throttle in the middle of turn and the Miata will spin quicker than you can say "oops". That's why they now tune RWD vehicles to understeer, that plus the electronic nannies like stability control jump in early and spoil the fun. And when you turn that off, well, you still have understeer, and you can still lose it driving at the limit. Bottom line - over the limit you lose control. With AWD, you still have control, even beyond the limit. You can control a slide, AWD will actually help you pull out of it. Now, my Forester isn't a little roadster, but when it does snow, I can drift it and *CATCH* the slide, and control it. The Miata just cannot do this. So basically I can exceed the limits and have more fun, all in a controllable manner. With RWD I risk spinning out and damaging something. I realize every car is different, but I've owned both for several years and I have (surprise) gotten the Forester sideways a lot more often. -juice |
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Replying to: redsoxgirl (May 11, 2006 8:31 am) The Subie is under your price range but an STI Limited arrives for 2007. Now, are you gonna tell me an EVO is not more fun than a BMW 325i, even with RWD? An M3, OK, I'll give you that, but that's almost twice the money. Plus it's not available any more (or yet). -juice |
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Replying to: ateixeira (May 11, 2006 9:28 am) But I need something for 12,000+/- miles a year of on-road driving that I can occassionally use to ferry around a client (i.e. senior corporate executives, Wall Street analysts, etc.). Being the youngest female partner in the firm already presents some challenges. Showing up to a business function in a an aerodynamically-eccentric testosterone-laced "boy racer" car would be professionally unadviseable. And frankly, I doubt it would be my cup of tea regardless of the professional image implications. Yesterday, one of our clients offered me his 2003 M5 with only 19,000 miles, pristine condition for $50,000. It includes an extended (7/75) warranty that covers another 4 years and 56,000 miles of all maintenance. I happen to like the previous (i.e. smaller proportioned, pre-i-drive, real 6-speed manual) M5 better than the new one which feels absolutely enormous to me. I have never purchased a used car, but I'm going to check this one out. Thanks for your suggestion. I would concede that the EVO is definitely not "boring", even if it's not for me.
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