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Sedans Lexus LS 460/460L Lexus LS 460/LS 460L Styling Impressions
3321 messages, Last post on Apr 22, 2007 at 12:29 PM
You are in the Lexus LS 460/460L Forum. Your Hosts are pat & karens
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we aren't really talking about the GS. Most of the auto mags have said that it was a good attempt. Besides (and I've said this about a jillion times) would anyone in their right mind actually expect Lexus to want to make a sport sedan of 5-Series caliber??!? And they did screw up a bit, but people are still buying the GS, apparently. |
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Replying to: atlas7 (Jul 11, 2005 3:48 pm)
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Replying to: oac (Jul 11, 2005 3:23 pm) |
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Interesting discussion guys. Lets try and refrain from calling german car fans "fools" ok? It just doesnt help the cause at all. There are people that buy BMW or Mercedes just for the badge (usually 325is, C230s and 525is), and while I dont necessarily agree with it, its their decision to make. Then there are the serious enthusiasts with AMG and Motorsport cars. While Japan should start trying to compete in this catergory soon (with Lexus leading and Infiniti following) they currently have nothing. Even when they do start offering super powered cars to compete, they wont have the years and years of tuning experience that AMG, Motorsport, and Quattro Gmbh have. It will take awhile. The GS ultimately is what it is. Its definitely a Lexus through and through. However, there's just a little too much old GS and not enough IS300 in it. I like the GS300, but I dont like the GS430. The VDIM system needs an off switch, and Lexus needs to fix the pointless electronic active steering and brakes before I could consider it. A GS350 AWD, unfortunately for Acura, will make life for the RL that much harder. The GS is good, but this round definitely goes to Infiniti. I dont think Infiniti can beat the '07 LS though. They've been trying for 15 years, and they've failed for all 15. Infiniti can sell a more expensive car than Acura, but there's no way they can make an $80K car and expect anyone to actually buy one (ask VW how well their experiment went). I know I certainly wouldnt want to be the guy in charge of the '07 Q. Is it wierd that there is currently zero real info about the car?
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Replying to: maxhonda99 (Jul 11, 2005 3:59 pm)
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Replying to: vatvatsetho (Jul 11, 2005 11:03 pm) Not so, Vvti was added much more recently than 15 years ago. |
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Many here believe the Germans will have roll over for the Lexus steamroll. Here's a list of why that's not so easy. 1. The Germans did better in the latest JP Power, perhaps getting their quality problems under control. 2. Is it so easy for Lexus to produce performance car as you guys think? It will be Toyota's initial effort against the like of Ferrari and Porsche. I predict Toy will find success in this segment as elusive as in F1. And remember they reportedly spend more money than anyone else in F1, and that doesn't guarantee success. 3. Nissan GTR probably will have more success than LF-A, partly because it's the latest in Japan's most legendary line. LF-A has no heritage. 4. Lexus will not find success in other countries as easily as US. Take Britain, it's been there for years, and yet its sales are a fraction of Audi and BMW. It will be even rougher in the continent. 5. Case in point: the Aussie car magazine Wheels has this startling statistic. The current LS had some initial success but sales took a nose dive to 187 in entire 2004. Don't trust me, look it up in latest Wheels! 6. Wheels reviews new GS and has this pungent remark: 'Does Lexus want drivers, or does it just want people who want peace and quiet?' If you read British car mags, that's pretty much their unanimous opinion. So for the formula for US success might not translate very well in the rest of the world. BTW, if you read between the lines, that's also the opinion of many American publications. 7. The challenger to Ferrari and Porsche better want drivers.
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Replying to: lexusguy (Jul 11, 2005 10:38 pm) Thanks for sparing me the effort. Couldn't have said it better myself... a Lexus through and through... exactly what a performance buyer doesn't want. You can't go halfway with performance, guys. Lexus has BMW in their sights? They won't get many BMW buyers that way. The BMW boys are hovering around the IS thread, can't wait to drive it. If it's a halfway car, they'll head for the hills. BTW it seems the new M came out of the gate pretty good and it still hasn't hit home. So, not only will you need performance, you'll need marketing and time. You don't just say... we have money and we'll do performance. Reminds me of the rich kid who shows up to the stickball game with a ton of cool equiment but can't hit a lick. Ljflx... yes, if you can forget SUVs for a minute (but not longer than that) the LS is Lexus, the halo car, the success story. Take note, it's a luxury car and many of you guys are on record as luxury lovers, not performance lovers. Mariner7... good post! PS - Sports cars are my favorite segment so as far as I'm concerned you can't have enough of them. If I am wrong you can come back here, quote me and rub it in my face... the LF-A is going to fail bigtime. Talk about having to prove yourself. Classic example of the rich kid I mentioned above. Do you guys realize how much iron and heritage this thing is going up against? Keep an eye on the IS, that could be the newest torchbearer until the next LS gets here. I said COULD BE! 
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Replying to: mariner7 (Jul 12, 2005 4:26 am) -With the LS we also need to consider what they are shooting for. With at least the LS460 and LS600h it appears to me that luxury will still be emphasized. Here is what Kevin said in post 317: Many of you in this forum seem to be confused as to whether or not the LS600h sedan would produce either 460 horsepower as CarMode magazine stated or 500 horsepower as some other magazine claimed. What I can tell you that CarMode’s predictions are very close to the engine ratings that Nobutaka and his engineers have being reported in our engine test lab. Although this might disappoint many of you whom want the LS600h in achieving 500 horsepower because the technology that is currently available to us can easily tune this engine to achieve 500 horsepower. However please remember by doing so, it would sacrifice a lot of it’s stability and smoothness of the engine itself and this would prevent a lot of buyers to purchase the LS sedan if they find out their sedan are not as smooth and stable as the original Celsoir processes. Furthermore you must also remember a sedan with 460 or 470 horsepower was not a slow sedan either and with the engine’s powerful torque curve plus a new 7-speed transmission, I don’t see there’s a reason why this sedan would not outrun the Mercedes S 600 or BMW 760 LI on the road. If they produce an LS GT, which at this point is still speculation, then we'll have to see what that is like when it appears. |
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The Japanese are very good at making performance cars. Just ask the Subaru and Mitsubishi WRC cars, the GT-R, or the NSX. What Japan is not so good at is luxury performance cars, in the traditional European sense. Considering the age difference between Acura, Infiniti, and Lexus vs. Audi, BMW, and Mercedes, I think the Japan trio are doing very well.
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