Last post on Apr 07, 2012 at 12:14 PM
You are in the Lexus LS 460/460L
What is this discussion about?
Lexus LS 460, Sedan
#441 of 3322 Re: Telegram... Camp Lexus... di di dit dit [designman]
Jul 11, 2005 (3:23 pm)
OK, let's ignore for the moment the hyperboles (you called it) in jblak's posts.
The new GS did not miss really. Rather, I'd say that it is a scheduling *problem* at Lexus to blame for the new GS. The engines designed for the new GS are the 3.5L and 4.6L, and the hybrid powerplant 450H. Unfortunately, neither of these engines were ready at launch. The 450H arrives next spring, and the 350 and 460-badged GS in the spring of 2007, or earlier (note that Japan gets the GS350 this Fall at launch). The LS is being cast, once again, as the de facto leader of the pack for the new-look Lexus, and all are being arranged (or re-arranged if you so wish) to afford the biggest bang for the next LS. The IS would do well, but it is by no means the key car for Lexus; its the LS that really starts things off, and then you start seeing the whole bunch arriving in quick succession:
circa 2007 when Lexus starts its ball rolling. The GS/IS are floor moppers for the next LS....
#442 of 3322 Re: Telegram... Camp Lexus... di di dit dit [oac]
Jul 11, 2005 (3:48 pm)
yeah, LEXUS did screw up introducing a brand new GS model with a very old engine
Jul 11, 2005 (3:58 pm)
we aren't really talking about the GS. Most of the auto mags have said that it was a good attempt. Besides (and I've said this about a jillion times) would anyone in their right mind actually expect Lexus to want to make a sport sedan of 5-Series caliber??!?
And they did screw up a bit, but people are still buying the GS, apparently.
#444 of 3322 Re: Telegram... Camp Lexus... di di dit dit [atlas7]
Jul 11, 2005 (3:59 pm)
Which old engine? I ask because the 3.0L V6 in the GS300 is totally new for 2006 and the 4.3L V8 only came out for the 2001 model year. That is hardly *very old*.
#445 of 3322 Re: Telegram... Camp Lexus... di di dit dit [oac]
Jul 11, 2005 (5:03 pm)
OAC - right on the money with that. Everything in the Lexus line-up will follow the LS. It's the key car and it's perfectly timed with the global intro for obvious reasons. Besides, how can anyone say the GS is a miss. They sold another 3300+ in June and are averaging well over the projected benchmark just like they did with the LS in 2001. Stopped at my Lexus dealer the other day for my 20K service (I am really up to 24K miles on my LS) and they continue to have every GS sold before they are in the door. It's why you can't get a deal around here at all.
Jul 11, 2005 (10:38 pm)
Interesting discussion guys. Lets try and refrain from calling german car fans "fools" ok? It just doesnt help the cause at all. There are people that buy BMW or Mercedes just for the badge (usually 325is, C230s and 525is), and while I dont necessarily agree with it, its their decision to make. Then there are the serious enthusiasts with AMG and Motorsport cars. While Japan should start trying to compete in this catergory soon (with Lexus leading and Infiniti following) they currently have nothing. Even when they do start offering super powered cars to compete, they wont have the years and years of tuning experience that AMG, Motorsport, and Quattro Gmbh have. It will take awhile.
The GS ultimately is what it is. Its definitely a Lexus through and through. However, there's just a little too much old GS and not enough IS300 in it. I like the GS300, but I dont like the GS430. The VDIM system needs an off switch, and Lexus needs to fix the pointless electronic active steering and brakes before I could consider it. A GS350 AWD, unfortunately for Acura, will make life for the RL that much harder. The GS is good, but this round definitely goes to Infiniti.
I dont think Infiniti can beat the '07 LS though. They've been trying for 15 years, and they've failed for all 15. Infiniti can sell a more expensive car than Acura, but there's no way they can make an $80K car and expect anyone to actually buy one (ask VW how well their experiment went). I know I certainly wouldnt want to be the guy in charge of the '07 Q. Is it wierd that there is currently zero real info about the car?
#447 of 3322 Re: Telegram... Camp Lexus... di di dit dit [maxhonda99]
Jul 11, 2005 (11:03 pm)
well actaully it is pretty old engine....in 2001 they just made a slight improvment to the 4.0L engine they have been using for over 11 years. So the 2006 GS430 is basically using a 15 or 16 year old engine
#448 of 3322 Re: Telegram... Camp Lexus... di di dit dit [vatvatsetho]
Jul 12, 2005 (3:08 am)
the 2006 GS430 is basically using a 15 or 16 year old engine
Not so, Vvti was added much more recently than 15 years ago.
#449 of 3322 Not to easy to beat the Germans
Jul 12, 2005 (4:26 am)
Many here believe the Germans will have roll over for the Lexus steamroll. Here's a list of why that's not so easy.
1. The Germans did better in the latest JP Power, perhaps getting their quality problems under control.
2. Is it so easy for Lexus to produce performance car as you guys think? It will be Toyota's initial effort against the like of Ferrari and Porsche. I predict Toy will find success in this segment as elusive as in F1. And remember they reportedly spend more money than anyone else in F1, and that doesn't guarantee success.
3. Nissan GTR probably will have more success than LF-A, partly because it's the latest in Japan's most legendary line. LF-A has no heritage.
4. Lexus will not find success in other countries as easily as US. Take Britain, it's been there for years, and yet its sales are a fraction of Audi and BMW. It will be even rougher in the continent.
5. Case in point: the Aussie car magazine Wheels has this startling statistic. The current LS had some initial success but sales took a nose dive to 187 in entire 2004. Don't trust me, look it up in latest Wheels!
6. Wheels reviews new GS and has this pungent remark: 'Does Lexus want drivers, or does it just want people who want peace and quiet?' If you read British car mags, that's pretty much their unanimous opinion. So for the formula for US success might not translate very well in the rest of the world. BTW, if you read between the lines, that's also the opinion of many American publications.
7. The challenger to Ferrari and Porsche better want drivers.
#450 of 3322 Lexusguy, Ljflx, Mariner7
Jul 12, 2005 (5:21 am)
"The GS ultimately is what it is. Its definitely a Lexus through and through. However, there's just a little too much old GS and not enough IS300 in it. I like the GS300, but I dont like the GS430. The VDIM system needs an off switch, and Lexus needs to fix the pointless electronic active steering and brakes before I could consider it.
Thanks for sparing me the effort. Couldn't have said it better myself... a Lexus through and through... exactly what a performance buyer doesn't want. You can't go halfway with performance, guys. Lexus has BMW in their sights? They won't get many BMW buyers that way. The BMW boys are hovering around the IS thread, can't wait to drive it. If it's a halfway car, they'll head for the hills.
BTW it seems the new M came out of the gate pretty good and it still hasn't hit home. So, not only will you need performance, you'll need marketing and time. You don't just say... we have money and we'll do performance. Reminds me of the rich kid who shows up to the stickball game with a ton of cool equiment but can't hit a lick.
Ljflx... yes, if you can forget SUVs for a minute (but not longer than that) the LS is Lexus, the halo car, the success story. Take note, it's a luxury car and many of you guys are on record as luxury lovers, not performance lovers.
Mariner7... good post!
PS - Sports cars are my favorite segment so as far as I'm concerned you can't have enough of them. If I am wrong you can come back here, quote me and rub it in my face... the LF-A is going to fail bigtime. Talk about having to prove yourself. Classic example of the rich kid I mentioned above. Do you guys realize how much iron and heritage this thing is going up against? Keep an eye on the IS, that could be the newest torchbearer until the next LS gets here. I said COULD BE!